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Old 07-31-2019, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,746 posts, read 7,600,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greglovesoldtrucks View Post
When a poster is using their iinterpretations of a book's writings, especially when the book of topic is as intense and controversial as the BOOK of topic here is, then what happens...is what that is happening here now.

The BOOK that is the topic for this thread is NOT, like reading the "average" book from the library.

The original text from the BOOK being discussed here needs to be posted at the needed times, to help the reader(s) see WHY the poster came to their stated position or their interpretation of that text.

To do so, requires a cut/copy and paste of the actual text from the BOOK of topic being posted on to this thread. But to do so, it is my understanding of this sites rules... will be a violation.

It is very hard to debate a topic when only the "interpretations" from the poster of what they are reading in a book, is used. At some point for clarification and to diminish confusion, the authentic text from the book being debated NEEDS to be posted, to use as the benchmark for the responders position.

So knowing that I cannot post the BOOK's original text here with my replies, just to show how I got to my understanding of it, I am now respectfully stepping out of this one CALGUY. As your replies are not wrong, and IMO, neither are mine ….totally.
Actually I have found the book extremely easy to understand.
The things that were stated that may seem vague, are fully explained in the footnotes.
Some of the footnotes take up many pages in an effort to further understand the writing.
Not everyone will find it difficult to understand.
Upon my second reading, I learned, and absorbed more than in my first reading.

I see a great deal of what is stated in the book, as it relates to our human existence, and our daily lives.
Much of what is in the book, relates with how most of us lead, and live out our human existence.
I wish you could have understood that, as you read the book.
You leave me with the impression that you feel we humans are in control, and are masters of the soul within.
Actually it is just the reverse.
We are nothing but a tool for the betterment of the spirit with in each of us.

One more item may be of interest to you.
Spirits inhabit the entire universe, and not all incarnate into a human body.
The needs, and wants of the spirit dictate who, or what a spirit will incarnate into.

Other worlds, besides this one have different life forms, and as with the human form, are a learning, and development "tool" for the spirits who choose to incarnate with in them.


Bob.
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:27 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,045 posts, read 3,259,494 times
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From my study of "religion" (in its broadest sense) the impression I get is totally different to others view. If I can briefly(!) state what I think happens.

We are spirits(eternal beings) who use the physical vehicle(Earth body) to learn lessons which cannot be learned in a less-dense body. We, as an eternal being, have the choice to come and learn at many schools(Earth and other places) to learn different lessons which our spirit needs to understand, and these lives are experiences which help us learn through doing.

Looking at things this way, makes a lot of sense to me because the minute small things in our life are viewed in the broader context of an eternal being. I do not think God/The Creator has a personalized impact(Fatherly aspect) on our lives, but I do think there are beings who have learned greater love who take a more interested, active part in our lives and who help us as guides or companions in our life experience. They understand we are learning by experiencing and do not interfere much in our lessons - hence the talk of Free Will.

This view of 'life' means that we are not subservient to other beings, but eternal beings who are experiencing lessons in this school and we will soon drop our body and return with valuable knowledge to continue our education somewhere else. Yes, there may be other eternal beings who have learned more than we have, but similarly we also have teachers on Earth who know more than we do. They say that students teach the teacher a lot of useful stuff. A good teacher will be kind, firm, and guide the student to learn many things and has a pride in seeing the student grow in all ways.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,746 posts, read 7,600,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
From my study of "religion" (in its broadest sense) the impression I get is totally different to others view. If I can briefly(!) state what I think happens.

We are spirits(eternal beings) who use the physical vehicle(Earth body) to learn lessons which cannot be learned in a less-dense body. We, as an eternal being, have the choice to come and learn at many schools(Earth and other places) to learn different lessons which our spirit needs to understand, and these lives are experiences which help us learn through doing.

Looking at things this way, makes a lot of sense to me because the minute small things in our life are viewed in the broader context of an eternal being. I do not think God/The Creator has a personalized impact(Fatherly aspect) on our lives, but I do think there are beings who have learned greater love who take a more interested, active part in our lives and who help us as guides or companions in our life experience. They understand we are learning by experiencing and do not interfere much in our lessons - hence the talk of Free Will.

This view of 'life' means that we are not subservient to other beings, but eternal beings who are experiencing lessons in this school and we will soon drop our body and return with valuable knowledge to continue our education somewhere else. Yes, there may be other eternal beings who have learned more than we have, but similarly we also have teachers on Earth who know more than we do. They say that students teach the teacher a lot of useful stuff. A good teacher will be kind, firm, and guide the student to learn many things and has a pride in seeing the student grow in all ways.
What I gather from your post is, you feel the human existence is the teacher for the spirits.
In my many spirit contacts over the years, that analogy is not correct.

Spirits incarnate into the human body , and that body is matter, the physical frame that the spirit needs to function, learn, and gain knowledge.
It learns to suffer, love, (in some cases) hate.
It experiences many trials, that will test it's capabilities.
All the while waiting for the day it will release itself from it's bondage, to return to the spirit world.

A more simpler explanation would be, when the weather turns cold, we humans dress to keep warm.
The clothes serve a purpose, and once we no longer need that coat/jacket, we remove it.
We humans, as well as other beings, are the "coat/jacket" for the spirits.
While we are needed by the spirit ,the spirit learns and experiences events to further it's cause, and it would be a mistake to think the human existence is anything other than that proverbial jacket.

As humans we experience many events, and experiences in our lives, and none of them would be possible without the spirit with in.

Look at it this way, how could a spirit evolve into anything with no material body to accomplish that which it must, in order to ascend?
That would be like a cloud being able to lift a thousands pounds.
The cloud has no means to be able to accomplish such a fete.
The same with spirits, depending on their need, they will incarnate into a being that best serves their need, and that being is not always a human.

Incarnation is for learning, and experiencing trials to prepare the spirit for it's ultimate goal, that being gaining entrance to the eternal place all strive to inherit.

Bob.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:16 AM
 
156 posts, read 97,502 times
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The purpose of this seventy year sliver of physical life at the beginning of our existence is to allow us to freely choose who and where we want to be for eternity. Part of that freedom is that we are the stewards of this physical world. God will only intervene in it if we give him permission to intervene. So when children die or other tragedies occur it’s because our lack of faith doesn’t allow God’s help into our world. More so than even the most sympathetic of us he wants to help those in need but his perfection won’t allow him to intrude on our God given freedom.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:55 AM
Status: "I care about your eternity. Sorry." (set 7 days ago)
 
213 posts, read 25,397 times
Reputation: 17
Spiritualist Philosophy
THE SPIRITS’ BOOK
The Principles of Spiritist Doctrine

If I was going to evaluate the information in this book here are some things I would look into:

Quote:
Spiritism - [19th century] a science dedicated to the relationship between incorporeal beings (spirits) and human beings. Postulates that humans are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement.
It also asserts that spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.
Quote:
Spiritualism - a religious movement based on the belief that the spirits of the dead exist and have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living (and they are more advanced than humans). The afterlife, or the "spirit world", is seen by spiritualists, not as a static place, but as one in which spirits continue to evolve. Spirits are capable of providing useful knowledge about moral and ethical issues, as well as about the nature of God.
Some spiritualists will speak of a concept which they refer to as "spirit guides"—specific spirits, often contacted, who are relied upon for spiritual guidance.
Spiritualism reached its peak 1840s to the 1920s, especially in English-speaking countries. By 1897, spiritualism was said to have more than eight million followers in the United States and Europe, mostly drawn from the middle and upper classes.
I would then investigate what a "Familiar Spirit" is:
Quote:
Pierre A. Riffard proposed this definition and quotations:
A familiar spirit (alter ego, doppelgänger, personal demon, personal totem, spirit companion) is the double, the alter-ego, of an individual. It does not look like the individual concerned. Even though it may have an independent life of its own, it remains closely linked to the individual. The familiar spirit can be an animal (animal companion).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiar_spirit
I would also look for references to "Familiar Spirits" in non-occult books that deal with the topics of the afterlife, demons and the spirit world, to get another point of view. The Bible, for instance, confirms the existence of 'familiar spirits':

Quote:
1 Samuel 28:7
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

2 Chronicles 33:6
And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger.
Then I would ask myself, "How can I be sure that these 'spirits' are not demons (evil 'spirits') who will draw me in with deception, only later revealing their true malevolent intent to cause me harm or destroy me?"

Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 08-01-2019 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,746 posts, read 7,600,627 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
The purpose of this seventy year sliver of physical life at the beginning of our existence is to allow us to freely choose who and where we want to be for eternity. Part of that freedom is that we are the stewards of this physical world. God will only intervene in it if we give him permission to intervene. So when children die or other tragedies occur it’s because our lack of faith doesn’t allow God’s help into our world. More so than even the most sympathetic of us he wants to help those in need but his perfection won’t allow him to intrude on our God given freedom.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
Again, I see another poster believing that "we" humans are the one in command, and that is just not so.
Everything in our existence is controlled by the soul with in each of us.
God has not granted humans free will, it is the spirits that are given that free will, and they exercise it according to their needs.

Spirits are aware of the creator of all, and they use many different beings to fulfill the destiny which the lord has promised them.
The lord has promised absolutely nothing to the human existence.
Those promises are made to the spirits.

Let's take this a little further.
Most of us believe in the "holy spirit".
Who is that holy spirit, and why is it a spirit?
Jesus is the holy spirit, and communicates to the spirits of the universe through other beings, and in this case, when speaking of earth's beings,they are humans.

When the bible quotes he "appeared", that indicates that before he appeared, he was in spirit form, and his spirit took on the body of a human, to communicate with other spirits that were in human form.
When the lord spoke "seek and you shall find, knock and the door will open", he was speaking to spirits that were incarnated in the human body.
We humans are nothing more than a covering for the soul with in.
Without the soul, we would exist in a vegetative state, unable to do anything.

Humans are equipped with organs, and a brain, to carry out the work of the soul.
Many do not subscribe to this theory, but if one cares to learn the true existence of the spirits, this is an undeniable fact .
Humans are secondary to spirits.
Many believe it is the opposite, which it is not.


Bob.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:50 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,045 posts, read 3,259,494 times
Reputation: 2826
Quote:
Then I would ask myself, "How can I be sure that these 'spirits' are not demons (evil 'spirits') who will draw me in with deception, only later revealing their true malevolent intent to cause me harm or destroy me?"
OK, trying to be tactful here, every moment of our lives there exists a possibility to be conned, tricked, and deceived, yet we (most of us) manage to successfully navigate our way through to the end without falling into deep holes. It is my experience that if we are constantly looking for bad things to happen, then we will attract those bad things to us. However, if we constantly look at things in a positive light and we are grateful for anything which we have, then more such good things will manifest for us and our lives will be happy and successful. Of course, we have to be careful how we prepare and live daily life, but I think a positive outlook is key to achieving a happy life.

Bob, you do not have the only path to truth and neither does the Spirit Guide book. I understand that you really think this book explains it all for you, but other books and other spirits maintain it is a different story. Just like religious people maintain their religious guide book (Bible, Koran,etc) is the only truth out there, so you are telling us that this is the real deal. Unfortunately, you cannot and they cannot convince us as we have to arrive at our own version of the truth which feels right to us. Assuring us that your truth is the correct one is no different to other religious folk who also believe in what their books are telling them.

Please reread my previous post carefully as I do not feel you have summarised it correctly.

Yes, I do think we are in command and I have had no experiences which lead me to think we are subservient to other spirits - however advanced or spiritual they may be. Do you think you are subservient to a lawyer or doctor? I certainly dont. I recognize their training and expertise, and I take their advice when I have a problem they can help with. So it is with other spirits and I am of the opinion that where a disparity exists where one being is subservient to another, there is always the possibility for a power mismatch and one to take advantage of the other. If your beliefs lead you into this understanding, then I urge you to examine the power and control structure because to me it smacks of one being taking advantage of another which is NOT a free-will situation.


If you want to collect 'bibles' then mine is Illusions by Richard Bach because it explains things how I like to believe it, although it does not go into such detail.
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Old Today, 06:07 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,028 posts, read 6,418,981 times
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In a very general sense, I’m receptive to the idea of Spiritism. I like how it places responsibility on on the self/spirit/soul, and its personal journey though existence. Life is almost like a classroom, a learning environment, where one isn’t necessarily judged by their poor decisions, but by their ability to learn and grow from them and their efforts to be a better, more benevolent, and more compassionate person/spirit/soul, etc.
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