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Old 07-12-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,542 posts, read 20,791,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
...and we mere mortals do not know what is possible for military craft these days. If, as they say, we have technology to take ET home, then all (or most) of these things we see in the sky quite possibly have a military origin.
Is that possible? Sure.

Do we have any evidence of that? Nope.

Until evidence comes to light, it's just speculation.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,431 posts, read 11,744,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Is that possible? Sure.

Do we have any evidence of that? Nope.

Until evidence comes to light, it's just speculation.
To me our X-37B doesn't look like it is prepared for interstellar flight: https://www.space.com/x-37b-space-pl...her-photo.html.

Sometimes 'speculation' stretches our imagination a little toooo far!
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:48 PM
 
10,696 posts, read 2,733,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
That would be cool ... watching a 747 or an A380 do right angle turns or evern 180s at hypersonic speeds. If we ever see that, I think we can assume it's a disguised UFO.
Yep, one of the UFO reports I read awhile back, the witness stated she saw a white tubular craft (looked like a big white pill in the sky), and when she looked back, it had taken the shape of a normal, modern airliner (747 type), but it was just hovering in mid air, making no noise, it eventually shot straight up into the air at fantastic speed.
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:38 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,917 posts, read 70,720,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
It's the Russians! The Russians are mutilating our cows!
And they've co-opted our national symbol!
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Old 07-15-2019, 01:39 AM
 
Location: PRC
2,989 posts, read 3,231,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S
Do we have any evidence of that? Nope.
Until evidence comes to light, it's just speculation
Except that evidence can be all kinds of things, not just what you require. You are dreaming if you think everything is able to be proved.

If Ben Rich said it, then that leads (some of) us to suspect he knew there was some basis for his words. Speculation is good and is used all the time by science when creating their hypothesis to test.

So often we refer to Occam's Razor on here, so I am saying these craft are more likely to be military in origin than extraterrestrial. Do you want to contest that?

If we dont have imagination, how can we 'dream up' a good experiment to test our hypothesis?

Maybe the X37B is a near-earth vehicle which is good as a transporter of cargo? Maybe the others they have are deep-space vehicles? In space, it does not matter what shape a craft is, but more importantly, we do not know what other technology it has inside and under the skin.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Maine
16,542 posts, read 20,791,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Except that evidence can be all kinds of things, not just what you require. You are dreaming if you think everything is able to be proved.
I fully understand that "proof" is not the ultimate goal of science, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand science at a fundamental level. But I also understand that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Don't confuse "might be" with "almost certainly is."


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So often we refer to Occam's Razor on here, so I am saying these craft are more likely to be military in origin than extraterrestrial. Do you want to contest that?
Yes.

Only because of the three UFOs I have seen in my life, one of them defied every law of physics and aerodynamics that we know. Is it impossible that military technology is not just decades but perhaps centuries ahead of where we think it is? Sure. It is possible. But is it likely?

No. First and foremost because we have no evidence suggesting that is the case. Secondly, because it would require not just dozens but perhaps hundreds or even thousands of military personnel and scientists not to leak, and history has proven that just doesn't happen. Organizations leak, and the larger the organization, the more it leaks.

So do I think UFOs are secret military craft? It isn't impossible. But I find it EXTREMELY unlikely.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,668 posts, read 3,713,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Only because of the three UFOs I have seen in my life, one of them defied every law of physics and aerodynamics that we know. Is it impossible that military technology is not just decades but perhaps centuries ahead of where we think it is? Sure. It is possible. But is it likely?

No. First and foremost because we have no evidence suggesting that is the case. Secondly, because it would require not just dozens but perhaps hundreds or even thousands of military personnel and scientists not to leak, and history has proven that just doesn't happen. Organizations leak, and the larger the organization, the more it leaks.
As I've said before, scientific discoveries always build on what's gone before - and engineering is the result of practical application of scientific discoveries to make things. There's nothing in current science that suggests the kind of UFO behavior reported is possible (I also saw a light make a right angle turn in the sky, and a morphing silver thing over the Mississippi River during a UFO flap many decades ago). We have no idea how a physical object could accelerate like that, fly at those speeds without causing displacement of air that would produce a sonic boom, disappear, etc.

Some of the UFO shows try to claim the Nazis developed some of this tech. Based on what? Everything Von Braun and his crew did was based on earlier research. Where's the research? Again, I can't think of a single radical shift that wasn't based on scientific research that went back decades or even centuries. So where's the predecessor research for the ability to accelerate to impossible speeds, fly at those speeds without causing displacement of air that would produce a sonic boom, disappear, etc?

There is none. Claiming that the government has hundreds or thousands of scientists performing research with no hope of publication due to the secrecy involved for many decades to product tech centuries beyond where we're currently at seems naive in the extreme. That's not how the world works. And working for a shadowy agency knowing what you've done will never reach the light of day and you'll be unable to interact with your scientific peers is totally counter to what motivates people to go into scientific research to begin with.

Which suggests to me one of the following must be true:

  1. All UFO reporters are mistaken or lying
  2. UFOs are not composed of physical matter
  3. UFOs are both physical and nonphysical (Jacques Vallee)
  4. UFOs are objects from elsewhere/elsewhen
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Maine
16,542 posts, read 20,791,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Some of the UFO shows try to claim the Nazis developed some of this tech. Based on what? Everything Von Braun and his crew did was based on earlier research. Where's the research? Again, I can't think of a single radical shift that wasn't based on scientific research that went back decades or even centuries. So where's the predecessor research for the ability to accelerate to impossible speeds, fly at those speeds without causing displacement of air that would produce a sonic boom, disappear, etc?

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Old 07-15-2019, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,668 posts, read 3,713,849 times
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Missed two of them:

5. Our star brothers gave us their tech
6 We reversed engineered alien UFO tech

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Old 07-15-2019, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,668 posts, read 3,713,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
No. First and foremost because we have no evidence suggesting that is the case. Secondly, because it would require not just dozens but perhaps hundreds or even thousands of military personnel and scientists not to leak, and history has proven that just doesn't happen. Organizations leak, and the larger the organization, the more it leaks.
Just saw this article in my Facebook feed; it illustrates just how frighteningly competent government agencies are.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/nasa-s...lions/28377207

These guys could keep massive programs secret for decades and develop tech centuries in advance of what the public knows about? Sure, why not.
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