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Old 09-07-2019, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
3,809 posts, read 1,870,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
However, it is also consistent with the smoke in partial shadow or the smoke being a darker color and looking whiter as it rises as well.

Is it unlikely there is smoke on Mars? Yes, of course. Is it more likely it is a natural feature of the landscape? Yes, of course.

But you still have many people who believe there is a huge conspiracy going on, where NASA and the government are not being straight with us over many things. Organizations have to earn trust and many people would say both have not demonstrated that.
I'm not one of those, and I have some "inside knowledge", having worked there for over 40 years.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:32 PM
 
5,134 posts, read 8,137,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
There are a few different examples of 'something' coming out of rocks on Mars.

I realise these are physically small examples and I dont know why they would be. I can only think
a) these are natural rock/ground features and not smoke/steam at all.
b) these are some kind of gas/steam coming out of the Martian ground
c) there is steam/vapour coming from the rock when they heat up under the sunlight.

Anyway, here you go...

Mars from Spirit Sol 1039 official links and cuts from them
(Left navcam camera)

Left Navcam (link above)


(Right navcam camera)

Right Navcam (link above)
What exactly are you showing in these particular Navcam images that show "...a few different examples 'something' coming out of rocks..."? I'm not seeing what you're talking about, unlike the previous images you posted. Can you highlight the somethings?
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:09 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,098 posts, read 3,295,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
I gave you an opinion but you ignored it. Dust devils are not all the same size or shape. They can appear resembling smoke.

What are you looking for; little green men burning rocks? You want to steer this in the one direction of 'unexplainable' and you want to overlook reasonable explanations.
Fisheye - are you and Mark S the same person? If not, then why are you answering for him?

Don't get offended because I did not comment on your reply.

If you must know, it is because I cannot access Youtube from my location so I cannot see the video clip. OK?
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Looking at the rock image blown up about 1000%, it appears the corner of the rock has broken off, and there is an accidental arrangement of lighter pixels in the background that make it appear to be a continuation of the "smoke". Our brains are wired to complete visual patterns; the Kanizsa Triangle is an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambigu...a_triangle.svg

The resolution is too low to confirm this is the case -- however, if you look closely at the pixels on either side of the "smoke" they're a much darker color than the rest of the rock, suggesting we're looking into a split in the rock.

It's only a few inches high, and dust devils are meters across. So it's not a dust devil. if it were an outgassing of methane or some other gas lifting dust into the air, one wouldn't expect it to take that shape (get an aerosol can and spray a bit out: what shape does it take?). Rock split, modal completion, and low resolution probably explain it.

Regarding the other two navcam links: I assume you're referring to the light patch above the rock on the right side.

I suspect the dust above the rock is concave or convex rather than flat, and reflecting the sun. Look at where the surrounding rocks are: the light patch is an area clear of rocks, and you can see other smaller light patches above the rocks at the very top right. This suggests a lighting effect to me rather than outgassing - but this one looks more like a puff of dust being lifted by a small amount of outgassing than the other one.

And if there's outgassing happening, it's not likely it's anything coming from rocks that have been sitting there since the Noachian era 3-4 billion years ago. It would be coming from below the surface.

Last edited by Vasily; 09-07-2019 at 06:56 PM..
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:26 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,098 posts, read 3,295,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Bazaar
What exactly are you showing in these particular Navcam images that show "...a few different examples 'something' coming out of rocks..."? I'm not seeing what you're talking about, unlike the previous images you posted. Can you highlight the somethings?
The 'somethings are the same in both examples - what looks like a kind of white smoke coming out of the ground or rock. In the first example, I have described where it is. In the second example have circled the rock with the white 'something'. I have already admitted it is unlikely to be smoke or steam but to me, it does look similar to that and I cannot think what else might be a possibility. I also think it is unlikely to be a micro dust devil too.
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:51 PM
 
5,134 posts, read 8,137,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The 'somethings are the same in both examples - what looks like a kind of white smoke coming out of the ground or rock. In the first example, I have described where it is. In the second example have circled the rock with the white 'something'. I have already admitted it is unlikely to be smoke or steam but to me, it does look similar to that and I cannot think what else might be a possibility. I also think it is unlikely to be a micro dust devil too.
Thanks. In your first post, I could see what you were talking about. I don't know what it actually is, but I can make some possible guesses that might be reasonable. Part of the problem is that the image is way too pixelated from being enlarged. Although the Navcam images show what you're talking about, it's not close enough to determine exactly what it is. At a guess, it might be a thin layer of salts or a thin layer of dust or sand in the rock, with another light-colored rock in the background giving the impression that the "smoke" is connected to the larger rock. I would suspect it's just an illusion. Also, I noticed another small rock with a similar layering. It's located somewhat to the right of the solar panels.

In post #15 where you've circled the rock in question, if you look above it in the sand with small pebbles, you'll see another white patch that looks like a rock sheared flat. There's also another with a similar light color to the left, midway between the rock in question and another dark rock of similar size, on the ridge of sand. I agree, it's not smoke, steam or a micro dust devil (Never heard of micro dust devils). At a guess, it could just part of another rock with a thin layer of salts embedded in it. It's been pretty well determined that Gale Crater was once filled with water and that Mt. Sharp shows layers of different types had formed from the water gradually evaporating and material settling in layers. There's little doubt that some small rocks may show such layering or settling of different mineral types, probably breaking off of larger pieces in water stream beds that cascaded down from Mt Sharp in the past.
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Old Yesterday, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,652 posts, read 11,956,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Fisheye - are you and Mark S the same person? If not, then why are you answering for him?

Don't get offended because I did not comment on your reply.

If you must know, it is because I cannot access Youtube from my location so I cannot see the video clip. OK?
How could I know that you cannot access YouTube? And, no, Mark S is from Maine and even though I love to visit Maine; I live in PA. Plus I think of him as a better writer.

Since you don't get YouTube here is a link to Martian dust devils from NASA: https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...jul_dustdevils.
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Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
 
Location: PRC
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Yes, I agree, the quality of these images is terrible, and the folks who designed and specified the cameras on the rovers would be horrified to see them. How any scientist can do science on these images I dont know. The PDS images are not that much better either.
#
No, I have never heard of micro-dust devils either, fisheye suggested the white area might be something to do with dust devils. I suppose small eddys and gusts do blow on the Martian surface, so maybe it's possible. Anyway, there are inconsitensies where the wind on Mars is concerned. The article linked to by fisheye does not really help in explaining how in some circumstances the wind can blow enough to scour the ground and in other circumstances it does not move spherules, debris, and sand into piles behind every rock.

The article says the atmosphere is 1% of Earths which suggests the wind is very weak, yet we have rover "cleaning events" which have in the past supposedly clear all the dust off the rovers solar panels. I have seen the gif posted by NASA showing dust devils moving across the Martian surface too. It all just does not make sense because NASA say or suggest the wind is both strong and weak so which is it?
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Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,652 posts, read 11,956,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Yes, I agree, the quality of these images is terrible, and the folks who designed and specified the cameras on the rovers would be horrified to see them. How any scientist can do science on these images I dont know. The PDS images are not that much better either.
#
No, I have never heard of micro-dust devils either, fisheye suggested the white area might be something to do with dust devils. I suppose small eddys and gusts do blow on the Martian surface, so maybe it's possible. Anyway, there are inconsitensies where the wind on Mars is concerned. The article linked to by fisheye does not really help in explaining how in some circumstances the wind can blow enough to scour the ground and in other circumstances it does not move spherules, debris, and sand into piles behind every rock.

The article says the atmosphere is 1% of Earths which suggests the wind is very weak, yet we have rover "cleaning events" which have in the past supposedly clear all the dust off the rovers solar panels. I have seen the gif posted by NASA showing dust devils moving across the Martian surface too. It all just does not make sense because NASA say or suggest the wind is both strong and weak so which is it?
It all depends on how light and fluffy the fine silt. Try to blow gravel and you don't get very far. But if you try to plow talc or flower you can produce a cloud of fine powder. You cannot analyze everything by looking at a picture.
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Old Today, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Maine
16,764 posts, read 21,006,308 times
Reputation: 19419
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So glad you finally turned up !

Now, offer an opinion as to what this shows.
I want it to be the foreleg of a translucent Martian sand spider.

But I suspect it's probably a small plume of dust. Mars is very dusty and windy.
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