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Old 09-24-2019, 08:41 AM
 
12,091 posts, read 20,662,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
If those are indeed the rules, then with all due respect: The rules are stupid.

Topics often intersect. Science and religion and unexplained mysteries can and often do intersect. If someone disgusts a cryptid sighting in Maine, are they in violation of the The Rules for not posting in the Maine forum? If someone mentions a UFO sighting in Canada, are they rulebreaking by not posting in the Canada forum? If someone is in love with Bigfoot, most they get thee hence to the Relationships forum? If the only topic allowed in a discussion about UFOs is strictly restricted to UFOs, then all discussions here are just navel-gazing. For that matter, the Navy is mentioned a lot in this discussion. Are we in violation for not posting in the Military Life and Issues forum?

No one is arguing religion here. They are arguing about the (supposed) reference to UFOs in the Bible. They are quoting passages to back up or refute the claim. If that is a violation of The Rules, then the rules are moronic.

That said ... I see nothing in The Rules banning the mention of religion. New Forum Guidelines -- please read
Rules are not stupid.

If you can keep it on biblical aircraft itís perfectly fine. And frankly, you guys are capable of doing it.

But the thing is, the way C-D works, it will list this topic on the other threads you might be interested in and draw others in who may not be respectful of the parameters set up by the forums. And then it turns into a dumpster fire. Iím just not in the mood to clean up threads and issue infractions.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone who may encounter this thread.
__________________
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Maine
16,865 posts, read 21,081,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
Rules are not stupid.
Well, to be clear, I did qualify that with a pretty specific "if." I think people were over-reacting and purposefully misunderstanding the rules here.

But yes, rules can be stupid.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
If you can keep it on biblical aircraft itís perfectly fine. And frankly, you guys are capable of doing it.
See how one little "if" restores everything to sanity.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,858 posts, read 3,832,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
Aaaand! This is not the religion forum. Quoting biblical texts and fighting over it is NOT appropriate.
The point of my quoting Ezekiel is that rstevens cited it as evidence that Ezekiel encountered a real live UFO. I wrote:

Quote:
When you strip out the superficial details that you're associating with UFOs, the rest doesn't bear any resemblance to UFO reports. None that I can see, in any case.
I have a hard time seeing this or anything else in the thread as fighting - and it's impossible to point out errors in Chariots of the Gods type claims ("keep it on biblical aircraft") without citing the texts that are being misinterpreted to show the errors in the interpretation.

However, I understand the danger that any mention of religion whatsoever can attract those with an agenda - and you're the boss. But there have been plenty of threads here presenting distorted views of religion, or that are outright slams on religious beliefs. These seldom seem to attract any negative attention. So in the interest of fairness, I will be reporting each and every thread including any sort of religious or anti-religious statement from now on.
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
10,765 posts, read 4,119,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Remember ... the Navy just said what the pilots saw and recorded are unidentified, meaning that as of yet, they (the military) don't know what they are. That doesn't necessarily mean they are flying saucers from some other planet or time travelers or whatever.
Although I realize that, I also wonder why some people believe the possibility of extra-terrestrial visitors is a far-fetched belief. that there is no life on other planets. It's perfectly plausible that there is. In fact it seems totally unreasonable to me, that anyone thinks we're the only life in this universe. Bizarre belief. I would be surprised if our planet has not been visited by anyone else in the universe.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,740 posts, read 12,040,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Although I realize that, I also wonder why some people believe the possibility of extra-terrestrial visitors is a far-fetched belief. that there is no life on other planets. It's perfectly plausible that there is. In fact it seems totally unreasonable to me, that anyone thinks we're the only life in this universe. Bizarre belief. I would be surprised if our planet has not been visited by anyone else in the universe.
It is one thing to believe that we are not the only ones. It is another thing to believe that we have been visited. There are great distances between the starts and it all depends on how close we are to the technologically advanced civilization. It is very possible that we might be so far apart that it would be impossible for us to ever meet?

Right now space is a mystery to us because we have only scratched the surface. So far we have landed on the moon which is only 238,900 miles away. I drove farther as a truck driver; but it did take me a little longer. We have speculated about life on some of the moons in our solar system; but they are a long ways off (compared to our moon). As we expand our universe we will find new answers and new problems; but it is going to take time.

I can picture AI going into long space voyages in search of inhabitable planets. But that is still decades away.
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,858 posts, read 3,832,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Although I realize that, I also wonder why some people believe the possibility of extra-terrestrial visitors is a far-fetched belief. that there is no life on other planets. It's perfectly plausible that there is. In fact it seems totally unreasonable to me, that anyone thinks we're the only life in this universe. Bizarre belief. I would be surprised if our planet has not been visited by anyone else in the universe.
I wrote in another thread:

Quote:
What fraction of the 260,000 stars within 250 light years are old enough and stable enough to provide a Goldilocks zone where life could evolve? How many of that fraction contain worlds within their Goldilocks zones that support life? How many of those have progressed to multicellular life? How many of those have complex intelligent beings with technology surpassing our own?

Sobering facts: There was no life on Earth for the first billion years; and the Earth was 2.7 billion years old before multicellular life appeared; hominids have been on the planet for about 2 million years, and we developed space flight a few decades ago. If this applies to other planets, it's likely very few of those 260,000 stars host intelligent life that's beyond a stone age level. We may very well be the only technological civilization in our area of the galaxy.
See the sections here on the Great Filter:

https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

In other words: life may be plentiful, but that doesn't mean intelligent technological life is common in the universe. And we're starting to get an idea for the sorts of things that could wipe out a civilization and drive it back to a stone age. I made a list of potential civilization killers we know about a while back:
  • Supervolcano eruption - Yellowstone
  • Extended period of volcanism like those that created the Deccan Traps
  • Climate change, man-made or natural
  • Another ice age due to solar changes or passage through galactic dust clouds
  • Major asteroid or comet impact
  • Pathogen mutation natural or man-made - unstoppable killer bug
  • Massive crop failure due to pathogen + lack of genetic diversity
  • Ecosystem instabilities due to reduced diversity (extinctions)
  • Massive solar flare like the one in 1850
  • Gamma ray burst from a nearby star
  • Nearby supernova
  • Oort cloud disruption by unseen solar companion raining comets on us
  • Nuclear war
  • Unforeseen effects of nanotechnology or artificial intelligence
An alien technological culture would be subject to the same sort of extinction factors - or similar ones.

Another factor is: what's scientifically possible? It appears something like a warp drive might be possible (Alcubierre drive) but it would take as I recall consuming the planet Jupiter for a single flight. We don't have enough mass in the system for it, in other words. We don't know if FTL travel is at all possible, and the claim that "well, once they get advanced enough they'll figure out something" is only wishful thinking. Also known as fantasy.

And what are the economic, ideological drivers, or sociological drivers that would drive a species to invest enormous resources to leave its system (like destroying one of their gas giants for a single voyage into the unknown)?
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:09 AM
 
11,544 posts, read 3,041,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Two clues from the video are intriguing to me. One was the nondisclosure agreements and the fact that the "men in black" were there shortly after the encounter. That leads me to believe that they knew their experimental aircraft was being watched, and it would be a threat to national security if that information leaked. Confiscating the recordings of the aircraft would be imperative. What we are left with is grainy footage, and quite possibly a planted story. A red herring if you will about how extraterrestrial the craft appeared to be. I'm convinced that they are in fact just experimental technology. I remember the UFO's that resembled the stealth fighters. They did look alien, but they certainly were not.

As a teenager, I saw a UFO hoovering above my friends house. It was round, had little windows like you would see in an airplane, and had red and white lights rotating around the craft. It flew off in seconds and made a humming sound. What are the odds that something alien would resemble the lights and windows on our aircraft? I'm convinced that what we saw was an experimental craft.

I'm sure drones are evolving to maneuver in ways that a pilot could not. They've already revolutionized war and it's amazing that a pilot is safely behind the controls miles away during a drone strike. Imagine what the future holds with advanced drones that can turn on a dime and penetrate water to destroy a nuclear sub. I'd want to keep that under wraps if I owned it and I'm sure our military does as well.
How may years ago was your sighting as a kid? Im assuming it was 20+ yrs ago..?


Dont you think anything 'experimental' 20-30 yrs ago...would have eventually went on to known aircraft/known technology? The Stealth bomber and others are great examples, they were 'experimental' for a certain number of years...and then they werent experimental anymore.


IF we had experimental aircraft tech that allowed craft to operate with just a hum, and some of the other reported abilities, EVERYONE would want to get their hands on them!


And finally, they DO NOT operate 'experimental' aircraft over civilian, residential housing, there is a reason why Area 51 is so isolated and far from everything, thats to ensure not many people see them, plus, for what purpose would an experimental aircraft be hovering over a civilian residence, low enough that can see small windows?
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Maine
16,865 posts, read 21,081,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Another factor is: what's scientifically possible? It appears something like a warp drive might be possible (Alcubierre drive) but it would take as I recall consuming the planet Jupiter for a single flight. We don't have enough mass in the system for it, in other words. We don't know if FTL travel is at all possible, and the claim that "well, once they get advanced enough they'll figure out something" is only wishful thinking. Also known as fantasy.
All true. Which is why I think that if interstellar travel is possible, it will have to involve some means that isn't simply going from point a to point b really fast. Even if it were possible, the cost in energy would make it prohibitive. And even if you're going forty times the speed of light, that is still incredibly slow given the scale of the cosmos.

That said ...

We have only begun to scratch the surface of the secrets of the cosmos. I don't find it all hard to imagine that a civilization that existed ten thousand years beyond our understanding of physics might have worked out some of these problems. We have figured out the basics of electromagnetism, but we are just now beginning to understand the finer points of gravity and strong and weak forces of the universe. Who knows how many dozens of forces are all around us right now that we have yet to discover?

It don't find it all that hard to believe that a civilization that has existed for hundreds of millennia might have figured out practical interstellar travel.

I have never seen any concrete evidence that such a species is visiting us. I remain unconvinced. But it isn't beyond plausibility.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,858 posts, read 3,832,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
It don't find it all that hard to believe that a civilization that has existed for hundreds of millennia might have figured out practical interstellar travel.
Maybe. If the Great Filter doesn't eliminate technological species before they get to that point. We're certainly far from that point. For all we know, we're the only technological species in our galaxy that's progressed beyond the stone axe stage - which would explain the silence.

Quote:
I have never seen any concrete evidence that such a species is visiting us. I remain unconvinced. But it isn't beyond plausibility.
Actually, someone pointed out that if there had been visits in the far past it's unlikely evidence of them due to the planet's ability to constantly remove the evidence of the past (which is why there are so few craters on the Earth compared to the Moon).
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,865 posts, read 21,081,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Actually, someone pointed out that if there had been visits in the far past it's unlikely evidence of them due to the planet's ability to constantly remove the evidence of the past (which is why there are so few craters on the Earth compared to the Moon).
Maybe we're just not digging in the right place.


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