Why would u not believe in spirits? (pastor, phenomena, ghost)

[Oklazona Bound]

Originally Posted by coschristi

No, no no, I disagree. Science actually validates spirit.

Please explain your thought process on this statement. Because scientists in general do not believe in this sort of thing and if science validates spirits then they would.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Aw, if you read a lot of NDEs there is a pervasive thread that we are not judged..
but rather understood and smiled at when in our Life Review) we did something full of love.
(One guy his whole life only did ONE loving thing!~ Hahahaha) It's as if you are surrounded by friends.

That is not what one of my friends experienced years ago, when he died for 7 min...


I was there in the hospital room when he was revived,( I had known this guy since high school), he was in a state of shock and frightened, the first words he spoke was to ask for a bible, (and this is a guy who partied all the time, drinking and drugging, all kinds of crazy immoral behavior).


There was about 5 of us in the room at the time, and we thought he was joking about the bible, (thats how Jason was). he started telling us what he had experienced, the doctor had already left the room, but there were 2 nurses in there and they heard his story, they told him this happens to many people, they told him he needs to 're evaluate' his life.

[adelphi_sky]

It is just as hard to disprove spirits than it is to prove them.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

That is not what one of my friends experienced years ago, when he died for 7 min...

I was there in the hospital room when he was revived,( I had known this guy since high school), he was in a state of shock and frightened, the first words he spoke was to ask for a bible, (and this is a guy who partied all the time, drinking and drugging, all kinds of crazy immoral behavior).


There was about 5 of us in the room at the time, and we thought he was joking about the bible, (thats how Jason was). he started telling us what he had experienced, the doctor had already left the room, but there were 2 nurses in there and they heard his story, they told him this happens to many people, they told him he needs to 're evaluate' his life.

Well, I don't want to get into semantics, but I guess there is probably a few definitions of "dead", since I'm pretty sure nobody who's been "dead dead" has ever come back!

While he might not of had a heart beat, was he ever shown to be "clinically brain dead" for these 7 minutes, because there still could of been some chemical reactions going on in his brain during these 7 mins while he was so-called "dead", which could easily explain what he thought he saw or didn't see and why he asked for a bible?

[WannabeCPA]

Because there is no evidence that they exist.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

Well, I don't want to get into semantics, but I guess there is probably a few definitions of "dead", since I'm pretty sure nobody who's been "dead dead" has ever come back!

While he might not of had a heart beat, was he ever shown to be "clinically brain dead" for these 7 minutes, because there still could of been some chemical reactions going on during these 7 mins he was so-called "dead"?

According to the doctor, he was clinically dead for 7 minutes.


I know for a fact, 'something' happened to him during this 7 minutes, because the person that was revived, was NOT the Jason I had known, in that moment, he immediately recognized all the things he was doing wrong, everyone was shocked at how he changed his life around, he went to church almost every single day after that.


I just think its weird, he was that kind of person and when he had his 'NDE'...it totally changed him! If it was just brain cells firing off randomly, why didnt he have an NDE filled with hot naked girls, lots of beer drugs, etc.? (those are the things he enjoyed beforehand).

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

According to the doctor, he was clinically dead for 7 minutes.

I know for a fact, 'something' happened to him during this 7 minutes, because the person that was revived, was NOT the Jason I had known, in that moment, he immediately recognized all the things he was doing wrong, everyone was shocked at how he changed his life around, he went to church almost every single day after that.

I just think its weird, he was that kind of person and when he had his 'NDE'...it totally changed him! If it was just brain cells firing off randomly, why didnt he have an NDE filled with hot naked girls, lots of beer drugs, etc.? (those are the things he enjoyed beforehand).

So "clinically dead" just means cessation of blood circulation and breathing, that doesn't mean his brain wasn't still firing chemical reactions around which would have caused him to believe he experienced something that wasn't really there, like an afterlife or seeing a "devil" or a "god".

Like has been mentioned numerous times on here, especially with regards to NDE, the brain is a powerful and amazing thing and being in neuroscience myself, we don't fully understand the brain and we might never fully understand it's capabilities over the next 1,000 years and beyond that, it's that complex!

[ocpaul20]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

So "clinically dead" just means cessation of blood circulation and breathing, that doesn't mean his brain wasn't still firing chemical reactions around which would have caused him to believe he experienced something that wasn't really there, like an afterlife or seeing a "devil" or a "god".

Like has been mentioned numerous times on here, especially with regards to NDE, the brain is a powerful and amazing thing and being in neuroscience myself, we don't fully understand the brain and we might never fully understand it's capabilities over the next 1,000 years and beyond that, it's that complex!

You have to look at this and realise that these are beliefs the same as the 'NDEers' and you are only arguing for your 'religion' which is neuroscience. The arguments for and against beliefs are the same whatever 'side' you are on.

Maybe we are discussing consciousness and the non-physical aspects of the human brain. If we are, then Charles Tart and Puthoff were fairly knowledgable on this when they investigated Remote Viewing in the 70's. There is quite a bit of science in their research and investigations which all led to the military developing the RV program for over 25 years.

Maybe we can look at their research to find out if it brings us any closer to the idea that ghosts exist.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

So "clinically dead" just means cessation of blood circulation and breathing, that doesn't mean his brain wasn't still firing chemical reactions around which would have caused him to believe he experienced something that wasn't really there, like an afterlife or seeing a "devil" or a "god".

Like has been mentioned numerous times on here, especially with regards to NDE, the brain is a powerful and amazing thing and being in neuroscience myself, we don't fully understand the brain and we might never fully understand it's capabilities over the next 1,000 years and beyond that, it's that complex!

Exactly right!!


So, why would such a person have such a 'religious' experience like this then?!!! LOL It doesnt make any sense, like I said before, this guys idea of heaven would have been girls gone wild in his living room with all the booze and drugs he could handle!

[steiconi]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

Exactly right!!


So, why would such a person have such a 'religious' experience like this then?!!! LOL It doesnt make any sense, like I said before, this guys idea of heaven would have been girls gone wild in his living room with all the booze and drugs he could handle!

I've read that after 5 minutes without oxygen, you have brain damage.