Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-02-2021, 01:36 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,488,784 times
Reputation: 11136

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
I keep hearing this possibility on CNN, Foxnews, etc. That these flying UAPs are secret programs from China or Russia. This has got to be the biggest joke or from the more ignorant people who have no clue of the capabilities of these two countries.

Let's say they do have the technology. Why couldn't they use it right away instead of just flying around just to show off the tech.

Why don't they use it to fly to the moon already.

All the nonsense these commenters say they are from other countries.

These UAPs have capabilities that have not been publicly used or demonstrated by any country and any technology.

If they are developed by earthlings, why are we wasting billions on SpaceX and taking so long to develop any commercial jet propulsion advances.
No. They run the very high risk that these vehicles fall into enemy hands and used for both propaganda and counter-measures intelligence. The UFO hoax is always been about covering up the test runs for the newest planes. It is the same for the Russia/China redirection. With the UAV's, there are just so many more of them and the opportunity for sightings goes way up.

AF makes extremely rare mention of deployment of stealth drones

China's black hawk stealth drone concept model
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-02-2021, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
6,219 posts, read 5,904,546 times
Reputation: 12160
As I've pointed out many times before, there's a fundamental understanding of how science and engineering work that's lacking in a lot of discussions on this forum. The purpose of science is understanding the laws of nature; the purpose of engineering is applying the findings of science to the solution of real-world problems. Science builds on earlier science, and sometimes refutes or takes it in a radically different direction; that's called a paradigm shift. Engineering uses standard processes to analyze requirements, and design solutions based on current science.

The people who do the science provide feedback and direction to the engineers who use the science. You see this in the Manhattan Project and the development of the atomic bomb at Trinity. Engineers don't come up with new science, and science isn't developed in a vacuum -- you can trace its evolution back to earlier understandings of how things work.

Show me a single military engineering project in the past century that developed radical new science in the course of creating a weapon or vehicle. Every instance I can think of is based on known science, and that known science is based on earlier science. Every feature of the B-2 Stealth Bomber was developed based on known science, using standard engineering procedures and military standards. Ditto with all the other advanced tech that's been declassified -- and with stealth drones, none of which exhibit the behaviors seen in UFOs/UAPs.

Claiming that a government somehow has science centuries or millennia beyond what's currently known (which is what the behavior of UFOs/UAPs would require) is based on a belief that there's a whole hidden scientific community that no one outside the community knows about, and it's developed new science that doesn't derive from known published scientific knowledge. That's nonsense. The only possibility if you accept the reported behavior of these things is that it's off-world technology (or back-engineered off-world technology) working with science and engineering that's centuries beyond our current understanding. Either that, or it's a pack of lies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2021, 07:54 PM
 
29,891 posts, read 11,455,207 times
Reputation: 18407
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Lol, you guys crack me up. Ok, assume they are US made. WTF are they doing flying around taunting our own military guys off shore? What's the purpose? These types of UAPs been spotted decades ago.
I am not saying this is what they are just that you left out the possibility that they are US craft. And if its terrestrial my money is on being American made. Its not so simple that the only possibility is aliens from outer space. Sure we are capable of testing new craft and not letting everyone in the navy know about it. But regarding taunting out military guys. Why would aliens be doing that? Or China? These craft could be out in the middle of the ocean and less likely to be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Let's also get something straight. If they are man-made they cannot be piloted by humans inside, G-forces would crush your skulls at the rate they were flying and stopping.
You have to think outside the box a bit. They could be some sort of hologram or lasers that shows up on radar. Is such a thing possible? Easier to create that then actual craft doing what they are doing.

Here is something that talks about this:

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/cutting...-using-lasers/

New Navy tech could use lasers to fool air defense systems into thinking they see multiple aircraft, or even UFOs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2021, 08:04 PM
 
Location: UK
6,901 posts, read 6,805,905 times
Reputation: 6510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
As I've pointed out many times before, there's a fundamental understanding of how science and engineering work that's lacking in a lot of discussions on this forum. The purpose of science is understanding the laws of nature; the purpose of engineering is applying the findings of science to the solution of real-world problems. Science builds on earlier science, and sometimes refutes or takes it in a radically different direction; that's called a paradigm shift. Engineering uses standard processes to analyze requirements, and design solutions based on current science.

The people who do the science provide feedback and direction to the engineers who use the science. You see this in the Manhattan Project and the development of the atomic bomb at Trinity. Engineers don't come up with new science, and science isn't developed in a vacuum -- you can trace its evolution back to earlier understandings of how things work.

Show me a single military engineering project in the past century that developed radical new science in the course of creating a weapon or vehicle. Every instance I can think of is based on known science, and that known science is based on earlier science. Every feature of the B-2 Stealth Bomber was developed based on known science, using standard engineering procedures and military standards. Ditto with all the other advanced tech that's been declassified -- and with stealth drones, none of which exhibit the behaviors seen in UFOs/UAPs.

Claiming that a government somehow has science centuries or millennia beyond what's currently known (which is what the behavior of UFOs/UAPs would require) is based on a belief that there's a whole hidden scientific community that no one outside the community knows about, and it's developed new science that doesn't derive from known published scientific knowledge. That's nonsense. The only possibility if you accept the reported behavior of these things is that it's off-world technology (or back-engineered off-world technology) working with science and engineering that's centuries beyond our current understanding. Either that, or it's a pack of lies.
Show me how we got from valves to transistors and printed circuit boards. From light bulbs to optic fibres, and from silk to kevlar. I still think the industries were seeded by ET technology. It would have taken far longer to discover, test, develop and produce so many of the products we now have in our military technology if these had gone through the "normal" route. There are things being discovered by universities all the time, but it takes years to get them to the production stage due to the process. If the product has been back engineered, you already know it is a product which will work well in the world and you can cut so many corners.

I agree that there may be a clear line of development, but what about a clear line of testing? Is there one of those? That is where the 'seeded' products provide a benefit which other human-discovered products do not have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r
Did you know the videos showed these UAPs are able to switch directions, this not demonstrable in any man made vehicle.

Do you understand the tech or difficulty to even do that? It defies many laws of physics that we established since Newton.

In order to have this kind, you would need a team of scientists smarter than any academic school PHDs. I like to know what group of scientists rather work in a closet for the military and never speak or never see anybody and talk about these tech?

You know that scientists by nature are chatty people and would give away any information about the stuff to work on.
Scientists have family which will be chopped if they talk. It sounds far-out but it has been reported that lives are threatened and those people with family will keep quiet to keep them safe.

Laws of Physics are not set in stone, particularly if you are talking about dimensional science which was not around in Newtons time. You honestly believe the same limited set of laws apply to other beings familiar with moving through solid objects etc?

Scientists have goals and dreams the same as other people. They probably think they are advancing science and working at the cutting edge. Most scientists would be really pleased to have an exciting job like that. They do not consider the moral dilemmas they have to face working for the military. Once you are in that kind of environment, you probably get used to the security and secrecy, your phones are tapped, you are followed, and generally checked for reliability.

How many Area 51 scientists come out and blab their mouths? Not many if any at all. I bet other countries would love to find these people to get their secrets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2021, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
6,219 posts, read 5,904,546 times
Reputation: 12160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Show me how we got from valves to transistors and printed circuit boards. From light bulbs to optic fibres, and from silk to kevlar.
I posted the history of optical fiber technology in another thread on May 20th:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/61083576-post9.html

Quote:
I still think the industries were seeded by ET technology. ...

I agree that there may be a clear line of development, but what about a clear line of testing? Is there one of those? That is where the 'seeded' products provide a benefit which other human-discovered products do not have.
I suspect most of the tech that's been cited as reverse engineered can be traced back to earlier engineering and science without the need for reverse engineered alien tech (as with optical fiber technology). Note that I wrote:

Quote:
The only possibility if you accept the reported behavior of these things is that it's off-world technology (or back-engineered off-world technology
If there have been recovered crashes, I suspect much of the technology would be beyond our ability to understand -- let alone reverse engineer. It would be like sending an iPhone back in time to Leonardo DaVinci. He would be able to figure a small percentage of it out, but without knowledge of the underlying science, most of the tech would be beyond him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2021, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Alabama
49 posts, read 22,555 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
I posted the history of optical fiber technology in another thread on May 20th:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/61083576-post9.html

I suspect most of the tech that's been cited as reverse engineered can be traced back to earlier engineering and science without the need for reverse engineered alien tech (as with optical fiber technology). Note that I wrote:

If there have been recovered crashes, I suspect much of the technology would be beyond our ability to understand -- let alone reverse engineer. It would be like sending an iPhone back in time to Leonardo DaVinci. He would be able to figure a small percentage of it out, but without knowledge of the underlying science, most of the tech would be beyond him.
There was a thread on this board not long ago, a poster was talking about ufo materials recovered. I cannot remember the poster but I did read over the link and it basically was just as you suggested, manyof the things, they couldn't figure out, or they could only figure out some of the material content, but not all, while some other objects, they had no clue what they were.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2021, 10:42 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,488,784 times
Reputation: 11136
Generally, the large number of UFO sightings started to appear after WWII. That coincides with the development of radar, the jet engine, the cruise missile, high-altitude spy planes, such as the U-2, and the development of stealth countermeasures to radar. Almost all of these were in R&D and deployment before the Roswell incident. The stealth and drone technology took longer to move out of R&D because of the miniaturization and special materials required.

Some of the sightings or bogeys are due to enthusiasts exaggerating the effects and the tendency to be confused by light effects and other natural phenomena. There's really nothing that couldn't have been done by military aircraft.

Notice we're now starting to see drone swarms in UFO vids as autonomous drones are a recent military development.

Some are drones and balloons used to test new radar systems.

UFO's airborne radar reflectors

Last edited by lchoro; 06-03-2021 at 11:20 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2021, 11:14 AM
 
26,721 posts, read 22,292,595 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
As I've pointed out many times before, there's a fundamental understanding of how science and engineering work that's lacking in a lot of discussions on this forum. The purpose of science is understanding the laws of nature; the purpose of engineering is applying the findings of science to the solution of real-world problems. Science builds on earlier science, and sometimes refutes or takes it in a radically different direction; that's called a paradigm shift. Engineering uses standard processes to analyze requirements, and design solutions based on current science.

The people who do the science provide feedback and direction to the engineers who use the science. You see this in the Manhattan Project and the development of the atomic bomb at Trinity. Engineers don't come up with new science, and science isn't developed in a vacuum -- you can trace its evolution back to earlier understandings of how things work.

Show me a single military engineering project in the past century that developed radical new science in the course of creating a weapon or vehicle. Every instance I can think of is based on known science, and that known science is based on earlier science. Every feature of the B-2 Stealth Bomber was developed based on known science, using standard engineering procedures and military standards. Ditto with all the other advanced tech that's been declassified -- and with stealth drones, none of which exhibit the behaviors seen in UFOs/UAPs.

Claiming that a government somehow has science centuries or millennia beyond what's currently known (which is what the behavior of UFOs/UAPs would require) is based on a belief that there's a whole hidden scientific community that no one outside the community knows about, and it's developed new science that doesn't derive from known published scientific knowledge. That's nonsense. The only possibility if you accept the reported behavior of these things is that it's off-world technology (or back-engineered off-world technology) working with science and engineering that's centuries beyond our current understanding. Either that, or it's a pack of lies.

Thank you, this should make things as clear as it gets.

So to compliment what you've just said here above, is UFO 101 ( or "UFO for Dummies") from approximately 1:11


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emn6jozxHxU&t=1238s
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2021, 11:55 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,488,784 times
Reputation: 11136
THE MEDIA LOVES THIS UFO EXPERT WHO SAYS HE WORKED FOR AN OBSCURE PENTAGON PROGRAM. DID HE?
There is no discernible evidence that Luis Elizondo ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.

UFO History Channel Luis Elozondo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2021, 12:18 PM
 
26,721 posts, read 22,292,595 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
THE MEDIA LOVES THIS UFO EXPERT WHO SAYS HE WORKED FOR AN OBSCURE PENTAGON PROGRAM. DID HE?
There is no discernible evidence that Luis Elizondo ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.

UFO History Channel Luis Elozondo

Judging by what he is saying in this video, yes he did, and he points at the "technicalities" of why it's denied now.

But that's not the point.

The point is, what he is saying about the UFOs ( put in scientific context,) makes a lot of sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top