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Old 07-29-2022, 06:24 PM
 
2,221 posts, read 1,333,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The trouble is no-one can see these spirits and we are so involved in their physical lives that no-one can recognize these things happening. So, they deny them. I get that.

We are just not yet at the stage to accept or recognize stuff like this.

Of course there ARE some people who can see and some others who can sense but generally we are dead to the world around us.



I dont think you have any idea just how judgemental and fixed the scientific world is. From what I understand, there are certain topics which draw ridicule and would not enhance any reputation at all. Aliens and Psychic phenomena are probably a couple of those topics.

If you are incredulous, they why dont you investigate for yourself. Many skeptics have opened their eyes to greater realities by trying to disprove what they thought were laughable statements made by believers.

If you are suggesting I try seances, ouji boards, and recording dead air to try to pick up the voices of "spirits," well, I am open minded, but I would consider that going a bit too far. That is more than be willing to consider good evidence.

I do agree with what some folks have said, though, and that is that it would be unwise indeed to willingly open oneself to anything "out there" that might be malevolent. I do not buy into these things, but at the same time, I would not willingly clear the way for anyone or anything to come into my life and harm me. This is the same principle as not walking during the night in a neighbourhood you know to be crime ridden. You do not have to believe there is a criminal out there just waiting for you to walk down the block, but you would not risk the chance that a criminal might by out there either.
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Old 07-30-2022, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,975,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker View Post
CALGUY, I believe you are sincere in your beliefs, but the examples you cited do not convince me of spirts and spirit intervention. Growing up some of the sorts of things you mentioned would have been attributed to angels, but I never could accept that idea either.

What about counter examples? What about all of the innocent children, for example, who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and paid dearly for it, e.g. little Fanny Adams in the late 19th century and many before her and since her? How do you explain that? Some might attribute all sorts of things, both good and bad, to dumb luck, but I am not sure I believe in luck either. I do not have the answers, but sure do question many of the answers I have been given.

I do agree with what some folks have said, though, and that is that it would be unwise indeed to willingly open oneself to anything "out there" that might be malevolent. I do not buy into these things, but at the same time, I would not willingly clear the way for anyone or anything to come into my life and harm me. This is the same principle as not walking during the night in a neighbourhood you know to be crime ridden. You do not have to believe there is a criminal out there just waiting for you to walk down the block, but you would not risk the chance that a criminal might by out there either.[/quote]

I have the answers to what you posted here, and it will be a long post.
Hopefully you will have a much better understanding of spirits, and what they are responsible for in the human existence, once you read this post.

To begin with, you need to know that spirits control each and every thought and action by all human beings.
Matter of fact, my spirit with in is guiding me as to what I am putting in this post.
Humans are nothing but a tool for the spirits.
We are used as a learning device for the spirits.

It is through humans that the spirits learn, and grow through life's challengers.
When the spirits feel the human body is no longer needed, it separates from the body, and we die.

You mentioned innocent children, and wonder why they suffer at all.
They have done nothing that would cause them harm, yet many are harmed ,and some die early, or are permanently maimed.
There are reasons for all of these mishaps involving children, ,as well as adults.
For now, let us concentrate on the children.

Have you ever noticed some babies are still born, or upon birth, are afflicted with some incurable deformity, be it physical of emotional?
Have you ever noticed that some children get hurt, or perhaps killed in an auto accident, while other's lived.
I recall reading about a flight that crashed years ago, all passengers, except one little girl, perished in that crash.
How is it she lived?
Now, the reasons for this can be explained in spirit interaction.

This may be difficult for you to believe, and understand, but spirits have the ability to "see" a life in it's entirety before it is even born.
When in the spirit world, spirits have (for lack of better words, time, for in the spirit world there is no time) the "time" to think and contemplate a future incarnation.
Depending on their need , they choose a body that will best serve their need.
That need may be an act of penance, a learning experience, a chanced to make up for indiscretions in a previous life.
Let us use this as an example.

Suppose a spirit, while incased in a human body, committed rape, and a savage murder of another human.
When that spirit returns to the spirit world, it will be judged, not only by elder spirits, but by the almighty himself.
It knows it must ask for forgiveness, and seeks another life that will prove it is worthy of that forgiveness.
It contemplates incarnating into a body, which will be deformed, and mentally retarded for it's entire life.
The spirit chooses this body to prove to the elders, and the creator, that it is willing to suffer the years to prove it is truly regretful for it's past life.
This is just one instance as to why we see babies, and children afflicted .

Some have stated the afflictions were just dna, and hereditary.

One needs to understand the make up of the human species in the hands of the almighty.
It is this deity that decides who, and what is human, and how that human is borne.

Remember what I said earlier, we humans are but a tool for the spirits.
The spirits were created before humans existed.
Humans were created to serve the will of the spirits.
Once in a while, the spirits are at a loss when, though expected, death sometimes happens quickly, and the spirit is not ready to quit the human body.
Sometimes they make it back into the spirit world, and sometimes they remain here on earth, in limbo.

Many many people believe we are superior to the spirits, but nothing could be further from the truth.
They are the predominant figure in the universe, after the creator.
There is much more I could tell you on this subject, but I wanted for you to understand why all is not righteous, and happy with some children.
What happens to them, as well as some adults, was planned long before they were even born.
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Old 07-31-2022, 01:47 AM
 
Location: PRC
6,948 posts, read 6,872,488 times
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CALGUY,
So, when we die and move on, we are NOT one of these 'spirits', but we are second-class citizens to the spirit being the first-class citizens ?

What makes you think this is correct?
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,975,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
CALGUY,
So, when we die and move on, we are NOT one of these 'spirits', but we are second-class citizens to the spirit being the first-class citizens ?

What makes you think this is correct?
Humans when they die, are no longer "second hand" anything.
The spirits who return to the spirit world are always superior to any body they incarnate into, be that human, or animal.
Spirits need a corporeal existence in order to learn, and to elevate their status in the spirit world.
Humans supply that need, and when the spirit feel it has achieved it's goals, the human body dies, and the spirit returns to the spirit world.

When a human dies, they do not move on to anywhere, but their soul returns from whence it came, that being the world of spirits.
The human winds up as dust (cremation), or as the spirits put it, "old bones in a cemetery".
I have been told by more than one spirit, including my J.R, spirits do not hang out at cemeteries, because there is nothing there for them.
Nothing but "old bones".
Some claim to have see ghost in a cemetery, and if that did happen, it would be a lost soul that for whatever reason, was unable to return to the spirit world.
Spirits care little for the body they removed themselves from.
.
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,975,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam812 View Post
So the spirits of all those thad died missed that one?
Those are bad odds that only one in hundreds helped out.
They didn't "miss that one", they were ready for the human they were incarnated into, to die, so the spirit could return to it's rightful "home".
Obviously the spirit with in that little girl had much more knowledge to achieve, and issues to experience.
Could be her spirit was a young spirit, and just starting out on it's journey.
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,975,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker View Post
I still think it sounds much too contrived, but I am open minded enough to do that.
If you think evp is contrived, then how do you explain the tape of J.R. stating he would like to rest, that people at a gathering in my house heard, months after that recording was made?
They all stated it was J.R, saying he wanted to rest.
EVP is not contrived, it is an extremely real process.
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Old 08-01-2022, 03:51 AM
 
6 posts, read 2,802 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
If you think evp is contrived, then how do you explain the tape of J.R. stating he would like to rest, that people at a gathering in my house heard, months after that recording was made?
They all stated it was J.R, saying he wanted to rest.
EVP is not contrived, it is an extremely real process.
Well, too bad that the the recording is gone... If you had it it would be more than interesting to hear it in context of this debate. I could think of few "rational" explanations for what you heard. But without the recording for me it makes no sense debating this intetesting subjective experience and posting alternative explanations.

And I wonder why would a spirit feel something at all if they are pure consciousness or energy? It makes no sense to me.

Last edited by Marcus_F; 08-01-2022 at 04:34 AM..
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Old 08-01-2022, 03:57 AM
 
6 posts, read 2,802 times
Reputation: 10
Marc Boccuzzi and Imants Baruss did some interesting ITC snd EVP laboratory experiments, but failed to prove it. You can Google their work.
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Old 08-01-2022, 04:33 AM
 
6 posts, read 2,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The trouble is no-one can see these spirits and we are so involved in their physical lives that no-one can recognize these things happening. So, they deny them. I get that.

We are just not yet at the stage to accept or recognize stuff like this.

Of course there ARE some people who can see and some others who can sense but generally we are dead to the world around us.



I dont think you have any idea just how judgemental and fixed the scientific world is. From what I understand, there are certain topics which draw ridicule and would not enhance any reputation at all. Aliens and Psychic phenomena are probably a couple of those topics.

If you are incredulous, they why dont you investigate for yourself. Many skeptics have opened their eyes to greater realities by trying to disprove what they thought were laughable statements made by believers.
I would say this arguments work both ways arpund as there are many ex believers turned skeptics.
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Old 08-01-2022, 06:48 AM
 
9,576 posts, read 7,334,337 times
Reputation: 14004
In the end, you either believe what Bob (CALGUY) says about EVP or you don't!

I think for some skeptics, until they experience something first hand, then they will remain a skeptic.
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