David Wilkerson's PROPHECIES FROM 1974 COMING TO PASS. (prophecy, vision)

Originally Posted by Campbell34

No that did not happen after the Babylon captivity. And that is because most Jews did not return to Jerusalem, but choose to stay in Babylon. Also the prophecy in Ezekiel speaks of the Jewish people returning to both Israel and Jerusalem from many countries, and not just Babylon. And the prophecy in Ezekiel tells us that when they return, God Himself will defend these Jewish people from their enemies. This did not happen either back then. Rome spread them across the earth. Clearly Scripture in Ezekiel tells us this return would be in the latter years. And it would be in the day that the Great Northern army would attack Israel. Outside of the few that returned to Jerusalem after Babylon, the entire prophecy of Ezekiel 36,37,38, and 39 remained unfulfilled. Only in our time have these prophecies been coming to pass. Jesus told us in a parable. That when we see their return, that would be the generation that would not pass away until all end time prophecies would be fulfilled.

First, the term countries is just land/s, not an individual political entity per-se.

Second, the term nations is just 'goyim' or peoples / gentiles, not an individual political entity. It may refer to peoples that are tied together in some way - that way may be political.

Now if you look at Chapter 36:19 you will see this clearly - 'So I scattered them among the nations [goyim/heathen] and they were dispersed througout the contries [lands]...'

Note it is past tense not furture (as in the Roman scattering) and that it simply refers to the peoples and lands that Babylon had conquered. Those lands and peoples were united under a political entity called Babylon.

Third, you ignored my previous point about 36:8 were God says that the return of Israel 'was about to come.' A near not far fulfillment.

Lastly, Ezekiel 38 and 39 are seperate in time because it clearly says, in 38:8, that those issues will take place 'after many days... in the latter years.' That is many days after they are back in the land.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Chances are I will not live that long anyway. However, both the Old Testament and the New testament gives us two time frames. The Old Testament tells us we will be raised up on the third day. And the New Testament tells us that one day with God = 1,000 years. It is believed by some Christians that God's time stared with the death of Christ on the cross. Christ died around the year 33 A.D. Thus the end of two of God's days would be 2033. The beginning of God's third day would be in the year 2034. Jesus said the generation that saw Israel reborn would not pass away until all things be fulfilled. The generation that saw Israel reborn in 1948 would be 86 years old in the year 2033. Don't get me wrong here. I am not saying Christ will return in the year 2034. However, I do believe His return will occur somewhere around that time. And I also believe world events from this time on will only confirm that belief. Scripture tells us that in the last days, perlious times will come.

First, the OT third day issue is not that simple and is a stretch on your part as seen in the link you make with it in the NT.

Second, The NT also says that a 1000 years is as 1 day not a day = 1000 years. Think about your use of that passage for your conclusion and hopefully you will see your error. If God's day is = 1000 years then likewise 1000 years is = to a day. They cancel each other out.

Third, since when has there not been perlious times. WWII was way more perlious than today and that is done and gone. Hiltler would have made a great anti-christ. But alas the world keeps on turning. Likewise when a new world conflagration pops up before 2040 you and all the other pre-tribers will go nuts once again. Of course you will have all your justifications ready. Imagine if something like WWII happened today - you know you would be all over the place expecting the sky to split at any moment. Yet just think that eventually it will all pass just like before.

Lastly, you never really answered my question - oh well - I never really do get an answer. Which only shows me that most pre-tribers (and others of course) do not know how to think about the Scriptures in any other way than what they have been taught or have read. They can not imagine any other way except their own.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by imbobbbb

Lol,all over the map as usual.You have just told me repeatedly that the 1990 oilfield fires were a warning of the impending russian invasion.When I brought up that was 21 years ago....you said that wasn't very long....the fires happened confirming the invasion will happen.....just have to waitNow you say we will have two years advance warning,[what happened to the one 21 years ago?],and it will be a missle attack instead of an invasion

Its interesting how you seem to equate wilkersons prophesy with biblical prophecy.I'm sure most people don't find them one and the same.

You are free to believe that american jews will go to israel,most i've known don't even desire to vist there.

Bits and pieces you can jam together with huge holes hardly = fulfilled prophesy.People of the world ignore them because they don't fit together the way they are 'prophesised to'.Getting 10%-25% right and then stating we may have to wait 2-3 thousand years for the rest of it sort of defeats the purpose of prophesy to begin with.

I will say campbell you are a fun guy to read and talk to....even if it is mostly in endless circles

All over the map? It will be a missle attack (INSTEAD) of an invasion? I never said it would be an invasion in the first place. I asked the question, was 21 years long to you? The fires confirm that Wilkerson had advanced knowledge. The Bible speaks about the two years of advance warning, not Wilkerson. Most people know little about Wilkerson, and most don't know that much about Bible prophecy either. And most people don't flee a storm until they see or hear it coming. The Jews and many other people will flee America when they see and hear of the war to come. None of these prophecies are being push together. They are simply falling into place. The Bible tells us that the World would not receive the prophecies. And that is why Jesus tells us they will be just like the people before the flood. All of these prophecies will be fulfilled. And God's Kingdom will come.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

First, the OT third day issue is not that simple and is a stretch on your part as seen in the link you make with it in the NT.

Second, The NT also says that a 1000 years is as 1 day not a day = 1000 years. Think about your use of that passage for your conclusion and hopefully you will see your error. If God's day is = 1000 years then likewise 1000 years is = to a day. They cancel each other out.

Third, since when has there not been perlious times. WWII was way more perlious than today and that is done and gone. Hiltler would have made a great anti-christ. But alas the world keeps on turning. Likewise when a new world conflagration pops up before 2040 you and all the other pre-tribers will go nuts once again. Of course you will have all your justifications ready. Imagine if something like WWII happened today - you know you would be all over the place expecting the sky to split at any moment. Yet just think that eventually it will all pass just like before.

Lastly, you never really answered my question - oh well - I never really do get an answer. Which only shows me that most pre-tribers (and others of course) do not know how to think about the Scriptures in any other way than what they have been taught or have read. They can not imagine any other way except their own.

Actually the verse in question tells us that one day with God is as a 1,000 years, and a 1,000 years is like one day. The Bible does not cancel itself out, nor does it waste words. It gives such information for a reason. Mans day = 24 hours. God's day = 1,000 years. During World War II it took years to destroy Europe and Japan. In the future, it would only take 60 minutes to do the same amount of damage. Thus perlious times. Jesus tells us that before He returns many will be saying where is the sign of His coming? Actually your helping to confirm another prophecy found in the Bible. One of the only one's who ever taught me about Bible prophecy was God. I don't go to church. Prophecy is not what I base my faith on. God has already spoke to me. Prophecy is just something I speak of to warn those unaware of what is to come.

The point of II Peter 3:8 is NOT that God's day is = 1000 years and that we are suspossed to somehow link that with Hosea 6:8. For an explanation of those idioms which mean a short period - see NET Bible® - Hosea 6 and footnotes.

Peter's point is that the Lord is not delaying based on our time frame. Our timeframe is not taken into consideration with the Lord. To him a day (in our time) is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years (in our time) is as a day - to Him. Our time makes no difference in his accounting.

Actually it is interesting that some would have the sense (according to thier time) of delay. Why would this be the case? What primed them for such a response? Why did they think the Lord would return soon and now after many years He has not?

Well the short answer is that every book in the NT, except two, gives us a time frame as to the soon return of the Lord which was expected to be in the present generation. The last days were already upon them according to the NT and the expectation of the soon return of the Lord was taught and recorded in the NT. So it is no wonder that the scoffers would rise up to ask the question and of course Peter would quell this by his response. Part of that response was that the Lord was not willing that any of them would perish and so was waiting for some of them to repent - 3:9. Peter seems to still believe that it will be in that generation - just as Jesus taught in Matthew 24. See I Peter 4:7 -'But the end of all things is at hand...' Well that was 2000 years ago - which by the way has been the longest period in Biblical recorded history - longer than the period between the Creation and Flood by a good 300+ years. And you think people are just rebellious and have no good reasons why they refuse your interpretation - who really has the problem here?

The amount of inference and speculation you engage in is astounding.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

First, the term countries is just land/s, not an individual political entity per-se.

Second, the term nations is just 'goyim' or peoples / gentiles, not an individual political entity. It may refer to peoples that are tied together in some way - that way may be political.

Now if you look at Chapter 36:19 you will see this clearly - 'So I scattered them among the nations [goyim/heathen] and they were dispersed througout the contries [lands]...'

Note it is past tense not furture (as in the Roman scattering) and that it simply refers to the peoples and lands that Babylon had conquered. Those lands and peoples were united under a political entity called Babylon.

Third, you ignored my previous point about 36:8 were God says that the return of Israel 'was about to come.' A near not far fulfillment.

Lastly, Ezekiel 38 and 39 are seperate in time because it clearly says, in 38:8, that those issues will take place 'after many days... in the latter years.' That is many days after they are back in the land.

The term countries is just lands, not any individual political entity?

REALLY! Because Ezekiel 36:24 Tells us that God would take them from the nations and gather them from (EVERY COUNTRY). So unless you believe that every country has no political entity then I suppose you could believe that.

Prophecy is often written in a way that more liberal types try to pass off as past tense and not furture. Yet clearly much of prophecy is speaking of the future that may sound like past tense. Also the prophecy of Ezekiel chapters 36, and 37 were not fulfilled with the return of the Jews from Babylon. Again liberals will say this is a failed prophecy. Where as Christians will say the prophecy will be fulfilled in the future.

If the prophecy of Ezekiel 36 and 37 was speaking of the return of the Jews from Babylon. Then we should of seen the Jewish people fully turning themselves over to God after their returned. And God then would placed His Tabernacle in the midst of them forever. And the heathen would know that God was now santified in Israel. NONE OF THIS EVER HAPPEN BACK THEN. And if you can ignore those failings, then you can continue to believe what you do. However, if you pay attention to such details. You will understand that the prophecy can only be fulfilled at a future time.

Your belief that Ezekiel 38, and 39 is somehow seperate from Ezekiel 36, and 37 requires you to ignore that God is sanctified in Israel after God destroys the great Northern Army. And only then will God be sanctified in Israel. The entire story is repeated in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. And the fulfillment of the prophecies found in chapters 36, and 37. Only occur in the prophecies found in Ezekiel chapters 38, and 39. Thus linking these four chapters together.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

The point of II Peter 3:8 is NOT that God's day is = 1000 years and that we are suspossed to somehow link that with Hosea 6:8. For an explanation of those idioms which mean a short period - see NET Bible® - Hosea 6 and footnotes.

Peter's point is that the Lord is not delaying based on our time frame. Our timeframe is not taken into consideration with the Lord. To him a day (in our time) is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years (in our time) is as a day - to Him. Our time makes no difference in his accounting.

Actually it is interesting that some would have the sense (according to thier time) of delay. Why would this be the case? What primed them for such a response? Why did they think the Lord would return soon and now after many years He has not?

Well the short answer is that every book in the NT, except two, gives us a time frame as to the soon return of the Lord which was expected to be in the present generation. The last days were already upon them according to the NT and the expectation of the soon return of the Lord was taught and recorded in the NT. So it is no wonder that the scoffers would rise up to ask the question and of course Peter would quell this by his response. Part of that response was that the Lord was not willing that any of them would perish and so was waiting for some of them to repent - 3:9. Peter seems to still believe that it will be in that generation - just as Jesus taught in Matthew 24. See I Peter 4:7 -'But the end of all things is at hand...' Well that was 2000 years ago - which by the way has been the longest period in Biblical recorded history - longer than the period between the Creation and Flood by a good 300+ years. And you think people are just rebellious and have no good reasons why they refuse your interpretation - who really has the problem here?

The amount of inference and speculation you engage in is astounding.

Non believers gloss over the most important details of Scripture. And that is why you are glossing over II Peter 3:8. To a non believer Peter is just make some vague general statement. Yet believers understand why Jesus spoke in parables.

Believers from the past did not know when Christ would return. And that should not come as any surprise. For Jesus Christ himself did not even know that time. Clearly the time of the end would be evidenced when the east could raise up an army of 200 million men. It is doubtful in Christ time that there was even that many people on earth. Forget about armies in the east having that many men back then. Jesus said the generation that saw the fig tree shoot forth it's branches would not pass away. Israel is the fig tree. And Israel put forth it's branches in the year 1948 when she declared herself a nation once again after almost 2,000 years. And today, we do live in a time when the nations from the east could raise up an army of 200 million men.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

The term countries is just lands, not any individual political entity.

REALLY! Because Ezekiel 36:24 Tells us that God would take them from the nations and gather them from (EVERY COUNTRY). So unless you believe that every country has no political entity then I suppose you could believe that.

Prophecy is often written in a way that more liberal types try to pass off as past tense and not furture. Yet clearly much of prophecy is speaking of the future that may sound like past tense. Also the prophecy of Ezekiel chapters 36, and 37 were not fulfilled with the return of the Jews from Babylon. Again liberals will say this is a failed prophecy. Where as Christians will say the prophecy will be fulfilled in the future.

If the prophecy of Ezekiel 36 and 37 was speaking of the return of the Jews from Babylon. God tells us this prophecy would be evidenced by the Jewish people fully turning themselves over to God. And God then would place His Tabernacle in the midst of them forever. And the heathen will know that God is santified in Israel. NONE OF THIS EVER HAPPEN BACK THEN. And if you can ignore those failings, then you can continue to believe what you do. However, if you pay attention to such details. You will understand that the prophecy can only be fulfilled at a future time.

Your belief that Ezekiel 38, and 39 is somehow seperate from Ezekiel 36, and 37 requires you to ignore that God is sanctified in Israel after God destroys the great Northern Army. And only then will God be sanctified in Israel. The entire story is repeated in Ezekiel 39:21 to 29. And the fulfillment of the prophecies found in chapters 36, and 37. Only occur in the prophecies found in Ezekiel chapters 38, and 39. Thus linking these four chapters together.

I did not invent the word or its usages - Ezekiel 36:24 says that God will take them from among the goyim (gentiles or heathen) and gather them out of all the eretz (lands - which has several different nuances - from dirt to a geographical area with distinct cultures or kingdoms - which can be united under single political entity).

This all seems like a problem for you not me - I gave you the time period, in Ezekiel 36:8 and you just ignore it - '...for they [Israel] are about to come.' How many times do I have to point this out to you?

It is not my problem that certain things did not happen when they were suppossed to happen. It seems you are the one ignoring the failings - not me. Not only do you presuppose what the details mean you presuppose that they might cannot be wrong and therefore fudging for a furture is possible.

You pointing out what 'NEVER HAPPENED BACK THEN' is eye opening when considering 36:8 - when God said that Isreal is about to come back to the land. Those things must have happened back then or they were false. The only way out of this is double fulfillment - which seems very ad-hoc.

As far as chapter 38 - you points were unclear to me? Chapter 38:8 is clear that God will visit Gog after many days after Israel is already back in their land. Note that the word for peoples and nations in this verse is the same word in Hebrew and completly different than the above words in Chapter 36 - it refers to families or tribal groups.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Non believers gloss over the most important details of Scripture. And that is why you are glossing over II Peter 3:8. To a non believer Peter is just make some vague general statement. Yet believers understand why Jesus spoke in parables.

Believers from the past did not know when Christ would return. And that should not come as any surprise. For Jesus Christ himself did not even know that time. Clearly the time of the end would be evidenced when the east could raise up an army of 200 million men. It is doubtful in Christ time that there was even that many people on earth. Forget about armies in the east having that many men back then. Jesus said the generation that saw the fig tree shoot forth it's branches would not pass away. Israel is the fig tree. And Israel put forth it's branches in the year 1948 when she declared herself a nation once again after almost 2,000 years. And today, we do live in a time when the nations from the east could raise up an army of 200 million men.

You're a master of Irrelevence, Strawmen, and Non Sequiturs - it is hard to have a convo with you. I gave specifics not generalities or vague interpretations - I am the one pointing out details that you ignore. I quess we are full circle with my questions unanswered and you just restating things already said - oh well.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

I did not invent the word or its usages - Ezekiel 36:24 says that God will take them from among the goyim (gentiles or heathen) and gather them out of all the eretz (lands - which has several different nuances - from dirt to a geographical area with distinct cultures or kingdoms - which can be united under single political entity).

This all seems like a problem for you not me - I gave you the time period, in Ezekiel 36:8 and you just ignore it - '...for they [Israel] are about to come.' How many times do I have to point this out to you?

It is not my problem that certain things did not happen when they were suppossed to happen. It seems you are the one ignoring the failings - not me. Not only do you presuppose what the details mean you presuppose that they might cannot be wrong and therefore fudging for a furture is possible.

You pointing out what 'NEVER HAPPENED BACK THEN' is eye opening when considering 36:8 - when God said that Isreal is about to come back to the land. Those things must have happened back then or they were false. The only way out of this is double fulfillment - which seems very ad-hoc.

As far as chapter 38 - you points were unclear to me? Chapter 38:8 is clear that God will visit Gog after many days after Israel is already back in their land. Note that the word for peoples and nations in this verse is the same word in Hebrew and completly different than the above words in Chapter 36 - it refers to families or tribal groups.

Ezekiel 36:24 states. I will take you from the NATIONS AND GATHER YOU FROM EVERY COUNTRY. So are you saying God will gather them from (ALL THE DIRT, OR ALL THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS? LOL. You know, it's been my experience that non believes have such a problem with the written word. That they often are reduced to the creation of these nonsensical word arguements. When the Bible tells you, (THEY ARE SOON TO COME). Your view of soon to come, and God's view of soon to come are two different things. Things do happen when they are suppose to according to the prophecies. You are in error, because you are trying to measure what the Bible means by soon. Yet the details that would give you a better time frame, you ignore. And I believe that is why God authored the Bible that way. Believers will search for the deeper meanings as God instructed us to. Non believers will only look at the surface, and miss the entire picture.

God's time is not like our time. And the Bible warns us not to miss this most important part.

Ezekiel 38:8 tells us that Israel would be visted after many days and in the latter years. I don't have a problem with many days. And when the Bible tells you (LATTER YEARS), this is a references to the end times. And when Jesus walked the earth, He told us the end times was still in the future.