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Old 03-10-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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Default Joan of Arc: prophet or witch?

The remarkable story of a seventeen year old, illiterate peasant girl leading a nation's army to victory and changing history is amazing stuff. History clearly documents her life, triumph, trial and execution. It really happened. Something miraculous occured, but by whom was it inspired? God? or Satan? As a protestant I should not accept the visions of Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret as coming from God. I can accept the Archangel Michael, but my theology may be flawed and the visions genuinely from God. It is a fascinating mystery and I want to understand it. Input please!

 
Old 03-10-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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Neither
 
Old 03-10-2009, 12:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Neither
Could I persuade you to expound on that slightly?
 
Old 03-10-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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You will probably be inundated with fundamentalists telling you any interaction between the "other side" and this realm is deceptive and rooted in evil. There's no use in discussing it simply because they can't grasp levels of awareness they have not yet experienced.

Many, however, have such experiences as her and the strong ones know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. She seems to have been one of the strong ones.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 01:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Could I persuade you to expound on that slightly?
Well I believe Joan of Arc was a Christian so that discounts her as a witch and I don't believe in prophets. Prophets main purpose was to prepare the world for Jesus Christ, He came so there is no need for prophets anymore.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: NYC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The remarkable story of a seventeen year old, illiterate peasant girl leading a nation's army to victory and changing history is amazing stuff. History clearly documents her life, triumph, trial and execution. It really happened. Something miraculous occured, but by whom was it inspired? God? or Satan? As a protestant I should not accept the visions of Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret as coming from God. I can accept the Archangel Michael, but my theology may be flawed and the visions genuinely from God. It is a fascinating mystery and I want to understand it. Input please!
I studied Joan of Arc extensively in college. I am convinced that she was a religious zealot (as many were in her age) with tremendous powers of self-suggestion; as well as a populist, a fiery speaker, and pretty much the first person in recorded history to successfully use religion as a proxy for nationalism. (No offense to anyone here, but I really doubt God cared one fig about the dynastic dispute between the Plantagenets and the Valois.) As for leading an army to victory -- her talents as a strategist and a military leader have been vastly exaggerated by 20th-century nationalists. She was instrumental at getting the populace to rally behind the Dauphin and did play a significant role in the victory at Orleans -- but she clearly had help there, and that was her only victory. Apart from that, she made lots of strategic mistakes, tactically nonsensical decisions, and threatened to undermine her gains before the Dauphin decided to get rid of her -- precisely because she had become such a liability on the battlefield.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Well I believe Joan of Arc was a Christian so that discounts her as a witch and I don't believe in prophets. Prophets main purpose was to prepare the world for Jesus Christ, He came so there is no need for prophets anymore.

Then Fundie, are we suppose to throw out all the prophets teachings about Christ's second coming and the end of the age? And how do you explain this passage that's taken for Joel which speaks of a future time?

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Joel 2: 27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Then Fundie, are we suppose to throw out all the prophets teachings about Christ's second coming and the end of the age? And how do you explain this passage that's taken for Joel which speaks of a future time?

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Joel 2: 27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
If there are prophets then they are bound biblically. That means there prophesy must be 100% accurate every time if not even if if it off by a small margin then they are to be put to death. We have the full revelation from God. What are prophets for? what can they tell me?
 
Old 03-10-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If there are prophets then they are bound biblically. That means there prophesy must be 100% accurate every time if not even if if it off by a small margin then they are to be put to death. We have the full revelation from God. What are prophets for? what can they tell me?

I totally agree about them being 100% correct, but don't ask me why we need them in this day and age, ask God. He must have figures we'd need them for He said, in Joel 2:28, that He'd sent them in the last days...
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:29 PM
 
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The entire revelation was given to us by God thru the bible. What can a prophet tell me that the bible can't?
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