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There is vast "noise" vs. "signal" in the realm of UFO research. When competent investigators such as Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Dr. Stanton Friedman, etc. sift through this noise, what emerges are remarkably cogent, verifiable and statistically significant numbers of cases that are truly extraordinary.
You guys were talking about the "Phoenix Lights." Take a look at the March 13, 1997 event once more.
Yes, the documentary produced by the Discovery Channel clearly made a case that the famous video was indeed showing flares falling behind the mountain. I agree that this was the explanation. What the documentary failed to take on was that there were two separate events that night that are nearly always conflated in pop media. The "flare" event and the extremely unusual event that took place two hours before.
Around 8:00 that night, hundreds of people witnessed a large black boomerang-shaped craft that glided through the valley. Among the witnesses was then-governor Fife Symington, who admitted it in an interview in 2007. More than 700 witnesses interviewed generally agreed on the dimensions and flight characteristics.
Whatever this thing was, it flew at very low altitude (approx. 100-200 feet above ground) and was very, very large. Most estimated it in the 600-900 foot range of wingspan. And to those who were close to it, it appeared to be a black solid object, not just a group of lights. And it was completely silent.
Researchers in the field have suggested that the Air Force intentionally dropped the flares two hours later in an attempt to purposely confuse the issue. And to the casual reader it worked.
(In April of 2008 a hoax was perpetrated by a Phoenix resident who attached flares to balloons. This should not be confused with the events of 10 years earlier.)
I could go on, but I agree that there is a lot of garbage swallowed by gullible people today and it reminds me a lot about how religious myths are perpetuated and believed with little evidence. Some UFO "believers" really have made it into a near-religion.
But this should not dissuade genuine research into a phenomenon that - -while not assumed is extraterrestrial in origin - is definitely real.
Last edited by Astron1000; 08-18-2009 at 07:59 PM..
Cherry picked quotes, quotes taken out of context, and fabricated quotes is no evidence, sorry.
Actually I am familiar with many of those quotes. I'm certainly not defending spaced-out believers but those quotes are traceable and most are not out of context. Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell has gone on the record stating that he was briefed by US intelligence that Earth is being visited by something, and has been for a very long time. But apparently the government knows little more than anyone else does about the phenomenon. Gen. Nathan Twining, Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was very upfront about his views on UFOs. Ben Rich, VP of Lockheed, probably was referring to the whole Black Ops budget of the US, not just Lockheed itself. The Nixon quote certainly could be simple sarcasm on his part.
The French COMETA report, released in 1999 and based on the work of SEPRA (the official arm of French Space Agency CNES that investigates UFOs), concluded that "an extraterrestrial hypothesis" is the best explanation for the 5% of UFO reports they studied that were inexplicable.
A rather encyclopedic work written by Richard M. Dolan, "UFOs and the National Security State," covers 300 verifiable, documented US military encounters with UFOs over a 42-year period. The second volume, covering the period from 1973-1991, is being released this month.
All I'm saying is that there are a great number of well-researched studies and reports that fail to get even a passing mention in media, other than the often-ridiculous shows that pop up on History or Discovery Channels.
No wonder people dismiss the subject. But plenty of legitimate sources exist for people to read up on. The subject is a minefield however, littered with charlatans and "believers." I do think the Mars and Moon structures are patently ludicrous, for all the reason Axis Mundi and others have said. There's a perfect example of "noise."
Last edited by Astron1000; 08-18-2009 at 08:05 PM..
But sir! I actually saw it! A big black boomerang in the sky! Yeah, just like your photograph. Waaaayyttt!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi
no quotes were taken out of context and no quotes were fabricated......sorry
And you know this how? Because you want (quite desperately, from your other posts here) to believe it all. Not that I don't believe in UFOs, but reports of low-flying black boomerang-shaped objects in the south-west desert?
no quotes were taken out of context and no quotes were fabricated......sorry
Not necessarily. That's not all there is to it. No one is saying the quotes were fabricated. But there's a context in which those quotes were made. For example, I could take a quote from your reply: "quotes were fabricated.......sorry!" But in context, that's not what you meant at all. So the question is: what's the entire context? Admittedly, that would probably take up too much space to write. Are there any links?
I should also say that some of the quotes you listed are a bit questionable, and out of context they might mean something else. For example, just because someone uses the term UFO, does not always mean they are talking about a craft that's controlled by intelligent beings from another world. It simply means they are Flying Objects that are Unidentified. It could be anything.
It was interesting that you quoted President Richard Nixon. "I'm not at liberty to discuss the governments knowledge of extraterrestrial UFO's at this time. I am still personally being briefed on the subject!" Certainly it was a subject in relation to national security. It possibly may have been to misdirect the Soviet Union into spending their time and resources on searching for these UFOs, chasing after shadows, as a psychological tactic. Should we just assume Nixon really was talking about real ETs? After all, it was he who also said, "I am not a crook," which was in relation to his involvement in the Watergate break-in incident.
No one can really say UFO and ETs have never visited the Earth. But it can be said that what evidence has been provided is at best inconclusive. It does not mean that UFOs and ETs have visited the Earth. The real proof is lacking any solid substance to support the claims. Do you see what I mean?
Now as crazy as it sounds scientists (publicly) have already successfully teleported two protons
Just wanted to stick my nose in and make a salient point:
Yes, scientists *did* successfully teleport two protons. The idea of teleporting a human, though, remains outside of our scientific ability, for the moment.
What those scientists did with the protons was to 'deconstruct' (ie, destroy) the protons at one end of the experiment and create 'copies' of the protons at the other end. Now, that's not a big problem for protons (a proton is a proton is a proton, after all), but when we get to something as complex as a human, we have a serious problem:
Uncertainty.
It's not possible, according to Heisenberg, to study something without changing it in some way. For those following along, that means that we can measure the speed of a particle or its position, but not both. Unfortunately, that means that anyone who steps into the transporter a living, breathing human would materialize on the other end as a nigh-undetectable (and very, very dead) subatomic 'fog'.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled, non-derailed thread.
And you know this how? Because you want (quite desperately, from your other posts here) to believe it all. Not that I don't believe in UFOs, but reports of low-flying black boomerang-shaped objects in the south-west desert?
no you so desperately want to debunk it so you ignore the obvious. Do a little research and you'll see these quotes were made publicly and are on record. I dont doubt that some people thought those craft were UFOs. In fact MOST UFOs can be explain. Some of them can't and these are the ones that seem to defy current knowledge of Physics by zipping across the sky in an instant and performing unusual maneuvers that would normally kill a man by the G-force. These are the ones where natural phenomena are ruled out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
Just wanted to stick my nose in and make a salient point:
Yes, scientists *did* successfully teleport two protons. The idea of teleporting a human, though, remains outside of our scientific ability, for the moment.
What those scientists did with the protons was to 'deconstruct' (ie, destroy) the protons at one end of the experiment and create 'copies' of the protons at the other end. Now, that's not a big problem for protons (a proton is a proton is a proton, after all), but when we get to something as complex as a human, we have a serious problem:
Uncertainty.
It's not possible, according to Heisenberg, to study something without changing it in some way. For those following along, that means that we can measure the speed of a particle or its position, but not both. Unfortunately, that means that anyone who steps into the transporter a living, breathing human would materialize on the other end as a nigh-undetectable (and very, very dead) subatomic 'fog'.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled, non-derailed thread.
FrednotBob. I would not say teleportation of humans is impossible. It may seem impossible to our scientists today but you have to realize there is a physics out there that allows ET craft to get from one part of the universe to another by affecting time, space and gravity. Its like the cell phone analogy I used. A person from the 16th century would think it is impossible for a voice to be heard thousands of miles away on a handset. Of course they had no understanding of cell phone/radio/frequency signals just like we have no understanding of the physics behind UFOs and even teleportation. There is much our scientists have to learn and we have only scratched the surface of what is possible. quite frankly I think our government in secrecy can already do some very amazing things. What is publicly known is always decades behind what is known in secrecy. Stealth technology was a product of the 1950s and 60s but wasn't revealed until the early 1990s. You can only imagine what they are capable of doing right now, especially since Boeing has already come out and said it would be working on anti-gravity propulsion which just so happens to be the same technology used by UFOs.
BTW here is the smoking gun on the Roswell case. The Ramey Memo which is seen in the classic Roswell weather balloon photo from 1947. The Airforce said the memo in the photo was unreadable using their state-of-the-art equipment. But that was a lie because researchers using regular computer desktop programs can make out what part of the memo says. Enough words were legible to prove that a "disk" with "aviators" did crash at Roswell and that there were victims. Why would they lie and say nothing is readable when it obviously is? This is probably the closet thing to physical proof of the existence of UFOs because its damning evidence that our government acknowledges extraterrestrials. In fact the guy on the right in the photo with the Ramey memo said years later that the weather balloon story was a cover-up for the alien craft they found.
AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER G. HAUT - he was the public information officer.
(1) My name is Walter G. Haut
(2) I was born on June 2, 1922
(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203
(4) I am retired.
(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.
(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.
(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.
(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.
(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.
(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.
(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."
(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.
(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.
(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).
(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.
(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.
(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.
(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.
(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
I still don't buy into the Roswell legend. Our government is too stupid to hide something like that, and such a discovery would have instantly catapulted our technology 1000 years into the future. The powers that be are also too naturally greedy to have access to such tech and not use it. Also, whoever or whatever are flying UFO's can go anywhere with impunity and seem intent on staying out of the planet's affairs (otherwise we would have been slaves or alien snacks a long time ago). If one their ships crashed, I doubt they would just let us keep it. Especially if there were casualties.
Also the story just seemes to get bigger and bigger. First there was a field of strage debris, then there was a whole second UFO, then there were alien bodies, then there were live aliens. It's a perfect example of a rumor and legend blown out of porportion.
Reading the ongoing releases of UFO info from the UK and France only confirm my suspicions: The government knows UFOs exist but haven't the foggiest idea about exactly what they are and where they come from. They don't really even know much beyond what the public knows. In the US, the best policy to deal with a phenomenon that is unexplainable but so far pretty much harmless is to deny it exists, while in Europe the policy is to simply state it is no threat to national security and look the other way.
I am sure something strange is going on with regard to UFO's, but I even hesitate to call them extraterrestrials. It could be anything. Add that to the fact that at least 95% of all UFO related info is most likely pure BS and you have a subject that is almost impossible to realistically study and understand.
You may have to reconsider your opinion. Have you heard that a couple of North Korean diplomats are supposed to be coming to the United States...specifically, New Mexico? Of the 50 states in the union, why New Mexico? It can ONLY have something to do with what (allegedly) happened at Roswell.
I still don't buy into the Roswell legend. Our government is too stupid to hide something like that, and such a discovery would have instantly catapulted our technology 1000 years into the future.
I agree with you. It would be impossible to cover up something of that magnitude for over a half century. And look at all of the things that even a President can't keep hidden from the public. Watergate comes to mind.
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But sir! I actually saw it! A big black boomerang in the sky! Yeah, just like your photograph. Waaaayyttt!!!
