U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-07-2009, 08:20 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 8,066,917 times
Reputation: 3066

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Am only suggesting that some folks may actually be bothered by some vague (and ignorant) idea of "mysterious astrological forces" controlling them. Am not saying that astrology supports that idea.

Your semantic arguments aside, "unique" or 'special" is all relative anyway. And astrology has never said that anyone is "identical". Yet is it so untrue (or irrelevant), to say that some folks may share a common nationality, ancestry, race, eye color, appearance, whatever (or even share some personality characteristics, as astrology suggests)? What's so objectionable about that idea?

Okay, I see your point and agree with what you're saying. My error. It was just the way the wording seemed to me that I thought I elaborate on. I completely agree that some people do indeed have the notion that mysterious astrological forces somehow control their lives.

In terms of things people share in common, I didn't get into that. A few examples: we all get hungry and need to eat, we all need to sleep, we all have a need to communicate, we all need to breathe air, etc. So, no, it's not untrue. These are essential things all human beings have in common, regardless of who they are, if for no other reason than by our basic human nature. If there's any variation, it''s only a matter of degree.

The examples you point out describe the variations between individuals, with which I fully agree with you. Other common things include basic social beliefs, customs, standards, languages, etc. These things are often further broken down by regions, nations, districts, families, even by an individual's own personal experiences. Such things point out the individuality of each person.

My example was just to illustrate that people are not identical, and that the same stars and planets shine down on everyone. I'm also saying that astrologers feel they can predict a person's future, although it's often incredibly vague ad could mean anything, and that it's all based on the positions of stars and planets under certain constellations, etc. If a person's future can be determined by astrology, then in a sense, that person's future is fixed. The stars say so. But because astrology is not accurate, it's easier to hopscotch around and say if you know what's ahead, then you can change your future. Eh? How's that again? So if you can change the future by knowing the future, then there must be something seriously wrong with the stars or the charts.

Astrology is no different than predicting a person's future by gazing into a crystal ball or reading tea leaves, as I earlier said. It's only believable to a person who wants to believe it. Still, astrologers use the moment of birth as a starting point, the position of the stars at the time, as well as the position of the stars at a particular reading. Why exactly should those things make a difference?

So what is your position? Do you think there's any merit to astrology?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-07-2009, 09:38 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,587,339 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Okay, I see your point and agree with what you're saying. My error. It was just the way the wording seemed to me that I thought I elaborate on. I completely agree that some people do indeed have the notion that mysterious astrological forces somehow control their lives.

In terms of things people share in common, I didn't get into that. A few examples: we all get hungry and need to eat, we all need to sleep, we all have a need to communicate, we all need to breathe air, etc. So, no, it's not untrue. These are essential things all human beings have in common, regardless of who they are, if for no other reason than by our basic human nature. If there's any variation, it''s only a matter of degree.

The examples you point out describe the variations between individuals, with which I fully agree with you. Other common things include basic social beliefs, customs, standards, languages, etc. These things are often further broken down by regions, nations, districts, families, even by an individual's own personal experiences. Such things point out the individuality of each person.

My example was just to illustrate that people are not identical, and that the same stars and planets shine down on everyone. I'm also saying that astrologers feel they can predict a person's future, although it's often incredibly vague ad could mean anything, and that it's all based on the positions of stars and planets under certain constellations, etc. If a person's future can be determined by astrology, then in a sense, that person's future is fixed. The stars say so. But because astrology is not accurate, it's easier to hopscotch around and say if you know what's ahead, then you can change your future. Eh? How's that again? So if you can change the future by knowing the future, then there must be something seriously wrong with the stars or the charts.

Astrology is no different than predicting a person's future by gazing into a crystal ball or reading tea leaves, as I earlier said. It's only believable to a person who wants to believe it. Still, astrologers use the moment of birth as a starting point, the position of the stars at the time, as well as the position of the stars at a particular reading. Why exactly should those things make a difference?

So what is your position? Do you think there's any merit to astrology?
Well, obviously I do, and have been practicing astrology (mostly as a hobby) for over 30 years now. Was intially exposed thru the usual "sun sign" bit, when I happened to notice that a list of friends' birthdays happened to cluster around 2 or 3 times of the year, and gradually became more curious from there. In truth, there are alot of aspects to astrology that one can buy into, but being basically a practical and pragmatic sort (am recently retired from an engineering firm), I've only adopted the ones that seem to bear out in my own experience and observations.

So my opinion is that there's definitely something going on there, even though the "mechanism" is still unclear, and it really seems to be more of an "art" than a science. But beyond studying the basics (of terms, house systems, signs, aspects, rulerships, etc.), I think it also requires a certain amount of comfort with intuition and "non-linear" thinking. And more than anything else, I mostly appreciate it as a sort of very elegant symbolic language for describing underlying relationships and alternative meanings for things, similar to Jung's ideas of "archetypes". In fact Jung studied astrology quite a bit himself, and there are several famous psychologists who use astrology in their work, for better understanding their clients. One I particularly admire is a Brit, who's written alot of insightful books on the subject, Dr. Liz Greene.

You asked about using your time and place of birth, and the position of the stars & planets to describe your personality. As I said, the mechanism for astrology is unclear, although there are plenty of studies that still show some statistical connection (like the Gaugelin studies, mentioned earlier). But I prefer the "clock" analogy, whereby you could look at the universe as this enormous mechanism that is continually unfolding, cycling and re-cycling, and think of the planets and constellations more like the hands of a clock, whose positions simply mark the times (and meanings) of these events and cycles.

Do I personally buy into the "predictive" side of astrology? Not totally, although I have met some Vedic (east Indian) astrologers whose predictive skills sure seem pretty spooky! But overall, my sense of things is that there are alot of misconceptions about astrology (among them, that people fall into predictable "slots", and the planets "cause" things), and these don't sit well with so-called "modern" or "scientific/rationalist" thinking, which can sometimes be just as dogmatic as what it condemns. But for me, it just comes down to being truly open-minded and practical, i.e. "post-modern", which is simply going with whatever seems to "work" for each of us, no matter how unconventional or "out there" it may seem initially. And who knows, we may eventually discover that what seems like today's "magic", is simply tomorrow's "science".

Last edited by mateo45; 09-07-2009 at 09:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 08:19 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 23,618,531 times
Reputation: 2698
Default There is a very useful side too it...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
So my opinion is that there's definitely something going on there, even though the "mechanism" is still unclear, and it really seems to be more of an "art" than a science. But beyond studying the basics (of terms, house systems, signs, aspects, rulerships, etc.), I think it also requires a certain amount of comfort with intuition and "non-linear" thinking. And more than anything else, I mostly appreciate it as a sort of very elegant symbolic language for describing underlying relationships and alternative meanings for things, similar to Jung's ideas of "archetypes". In fact Jung studied astrology quite a bit himself, and there are several famous psychologists who use astrology in their work, for better understanding their clients. One I particularly admire is a Brit, who's written alot of insightful books on the subject, Dr. Liz Greene.

You asked about using your time and place of birth, and the position of the stars & planets to describe your personality. As I said, the mechanism for astrology is unclear, although there are plenty of studies that still show some statistical connection (like the Gaugelin studies, mentioned earlier). But I prefer the "clock" analogy, whereby you could look at the universe as this enormous mechanism that is continually unfolding, cycling and re-cycling, and think of the planets and constellations more like the hands of a clock, whose positions simply mark the times (and meanings) of these events and cycles.
It has its uses. Something about it works. I have no clue why.

The part about being able to assign character traits and combinations of traits is what is most intriguing. If you get somebody that really knows how to do it, more than mumbo-jumbo, they will be quite accurate in describing your particular underlying character traits.

Not that anything is predictive, I doubt it is. Plus as said "Our faults lie within our selves, not our Stars" is also true. You are not preprogrammed to act against your own wishes if you choose not too. Still very helpful to understand your own character traits that may be in play in a "Hands Off Mode" and how you might act within a guiding set of traits.

Somehow they have found which sets of character traits most commonly will exist together in particular individuals. A, B, C, D are compatible within the same individual A, B, V, Z are not. That feature is most useful.

It does have its uses in being able to understand other folks. I had an old GF who was a Gemini. Pure Gemini in all and every ways. Helped to understand how she ticked.

You might say it also can predict who might like a particular occupation. Sets of character traits can predispose a person to certain jobs. Book about Vietnam and the intell failure there. Brought up the point one CIA guy used the Astrology signs and character traits of peeps to predict who might be well suited for certain tasks.

To me it is a lot like handwritting analysis. It works if you get the proper training and can tell you certain things about a particular person. A good leg up when dealing with folks from many angles.

The popular junk about Astrology is worthless but at its core there is something to understanding people and how they are built. The weird part is how it does seem to track to a particular birth period. I do not automatically discount anything about it. Depends on how it is being spun or applied. Folks will use anything for their own personal gain or advantage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2009, 01:01 PM
 
108 posts, read 386,362 times
Reputation: 142
Read the book "Innumeracy"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2009, 08:57 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,587,339 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinguy2009 View Post
Read the book "Innumeracy"
That's kind of a lazy argument, isn't it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,610 posts, read 4,667,354 times
Reputation: 4649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
That's kind of a lazy argument, isn't it?
...but a good one.

If there is predictive power to astrology, no one has been able to demonstrate it in a quantified and repeatable manner. Reports of successful predictions are typically the result of a confirmation bias, an overly vague prediction, or a self-fulfilling prophecy. If a scientific theory had the same reliability as astrology it would quickly be discarded.

I don't think there's any argument that astrology is nonscientific, so the question becomes is it useful despite not being testably predictive? I contend that it is not--we have a theory that isn't reliable in its predictions and claims a mechanism that is by all accounts not understood--where is the benefit in that? Perhaps astrology is useful as descriptive, not predictive. If that's the case, why bother with the stars and planets bit if you're just describing someone? A good astrologer is good at figuring out how people work, they may do that subconsciously through the stars or they may know the stars are just a charade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2016, 09:40 PM
 
26,160 posts, read 15,356,638 times
Reputation: 17235
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown
I wonder why in this day and age anyone even has to ponder if astrology is a joke
Not a joke @ all mate!!

I read my horoscope EVERYDAY and I cant believe how accurate it is! (Its eaither exact or exactly opposite,its strange)

Astrology can really help us in our day to day lives!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,386 posts, read 21,228,976 times
Reputation: 24215
I will always feel that our government and educational institutions will do everything in their power to keep discrediting the value/benefits to learning about Astrology. And they've done such a good job of it, there's no need to make it illegal, as brainwashing has accomplished the same mission.

Having been into Astrology for 30 years, it shocks me when people are so carefree about revealing their birthdate to me, including politicians running for office, as that gives me an opportunity to do a legal identity theft on that person!

At work, they list everyone's birthday every month (not the year of birth) and I've gained tons of info on my co-workers, which, unfortunately, I can't share with them, as much of that info could be to revealing/shocking to them!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2016, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,446 posts, read 10,897,061 times
Reputation: 28189
Astrology is a pseudo-science designed for those who are unable to take control of their own lives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2016, 03:10 PM
 
26,160 posts, read 15,356,638 times
Reputation: 17235
Im sorry DG but its real!!

Have ya ever read your horoscope my friend??

www.horoscope.com/us/index.aspx


Please read it with an OPEN MIND
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top