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I still maintain that absorbing entertainment is VERY different from actual every day culture though, I don't think it is a good way to measure at all.
People picked entertainment because it is an easy one and groups together several popular elements of culture like music, film, television, etc.
Culture is also literature, food, visual arts like sculpture and painting, theatre, sport, religion and folk/popular traditions.
On most - but not all - of these fronts, in my humble opinion the UK is quite a bit closer to the US than to continental Europe.
Certainly when it comes to music, film, television, literature, theatre and folk traditions, it's closer to the US.
For sport the UK is closer to Europe. Not sure about the others - for several of them it looks like it might be a toss-up.
Tonight Nicolas Zarkozy casually dismissed a British reporter by suggesting that because he came from an island (Britain) he was unable to grasp the subtleties of European politics.
This is what I mean when I describe a barrier between Britain and their European counterparts. Europeans tend to see Brits as stuffy, arrogant and boorish. This is typical of European attitudes towards Britain. They don't just see Britain as an English Channel away from mainland Europe they also see Britain as far more detached in terms of political ideology, social etiquette, attitude and culture.
Personally I would prefer to see Britain become more European politically and less American in outlook but that is just not the way it is. There is no doubt that Britain since the early 80's and beyond has followed the Reagonomic neo-liberal path to irresponsible de-regulation and erosion of wage growth that has gradually evolved and contributed to the economic mess we find ourselves in today. Britain too has destroyed its manufacturing base instead of re-investing in our future and left a desolate trail of joblessness and disparity in its wake.
Britain, like America is now struggling to rebuild in an economic climate of fear where financial services, invisible paper trails and service industries alone are not going to be anywhere near enough to revive such a skeletal framework for growth. In this respect too, Britain has followed the American dream with a fanatic zeal like no other country in Europe. And much as I admire America in so many ways culturally, politically this has been a big mistake.
The fact that British and to a larger extent American culture is also as popular throughout mainland Europe is besides the point. Politically, socially, historically and culturally countries such as Spain, Italy, France and Germany view the British as a breed apart. Politically too they are lumped in with America as neo-imperialists serving as a lapdog to American indulgence. Britain's suspicious standoff approach to European integration has also added to this perception and there are far greater divisions between Britain and Europe than there ever have been between Britain and the United States. Since the war of independence anyway.
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You are being over-politicized again. The average folk in Western Europe do not judge their neighbours for their politics. On the other side, most people (except those over-politicized) don't follow the particular politics of their neighbours. Not only that, the absolute majority of Western Europeans do not know a thing about British (or Spanish) politics.
Some may know about the Wigs and Tories, about the presence of dogs in the Parliament, about the change of guard or praise the long democratic history of Great Britain.
In fact, I'm totally sure that the vast majority of West Europeans are more familiar with the British Royal family than with English politics.
As to your opinion that British are considered a breed apart, or that British are particularly arrogant, not true either. On the continent, anybody that lives 50 miles apart and speaks a different language or dialect "is a breed apart". As to being arrogant and conceited, French are considered leaders here.
As to followers of Supply-side economics and Reaganomics, and being subservient to American interests...We are also lapdogs here, in Spain. The strictest follower of Reaganomics in Europe was not Margaret Thatcher, but Felipe González (a supposedly socialist president) that also dismantled all the industrial fabric and got us into NATO, into wars (he even sent conscripts to Bosnia), etc.
As to not being considered "true Europeans" by the French, according to French they are the only Europeans. Quite recently ago, they opposed the entry of Spain into the EEC because according to them "Europe ended in the Pyrenees" and they treated us like scum not a long time ago....and let's not speak about the rest.
And don't forget that the UK is not an island anymore, you can travel there by train (a joke)..As to being "Eurosceptics"....well, now you have plenty eurosceptics everywhere.
As to MEDIA, the entire world shares the same MEDIA, we also watch CNN -in Spanish, FOX news, BBC, whatever, and most of the Pop music is just the same mix of local/international, the same stuff everywhere.
Tonight Nicolas Zarkozy casually dismissed a British reporter by suggesting that because he came from an island (Britain) he was unable to grasp the subtleties of European politics.
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You are describing a typical French "boutade" (their particular kind of humour).
The translation of "boutade" is "flash of wit", but it's not the correct translation. I think that in Spanish it would be "burrada" (foolish act), but French (and Catalans) find it funny when said in a certain way.
Tonight Nicolas Zarkozy casually dismissed a British reporter by suggesting that because he came from an island (Britain) he was unable to grasp the subtleties of European politics.
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You are describing a typical French "boutade" (their particular kind of humour).
The translation of "boutade" is "flash of wit", but it's not the correct translation. I think that in Spanish it would be "burrada" (foolish act), but French (and Catalans) find it funny when said in a certain way.
If I had to translate "boutade" into English I would probably say "wisecrack".
The strictest follower of Reaganomics in Europe was not Margaret Thatcher, but Felipe González (a supposedly socialist president) that also dismantled all the industrial fabric and got us into NATO, into wars (he even sent conscripts to Bosnia), etc.
And yet not one mention of Ronald Reagan on Felipe Gonzalez's Wikipedia page. No cuddly photograph of them shaking hands with beaming smiles towards the camera either. Felipe González - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Unlike Thatcher's Wikipedia page which goes into through detail about the strong alliance between the American President and the British Prime Minister. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_thatcher Thatcher was also the only European leader to allow American fighter planes to land on British soil to refuel before going on to bomb Libya. Felip Gonzalez was vehemently opposed to Reagan's stance in this instance and had far less politically in common with Reagan than Margaret Thatcher did. No matter how much Gonzalez de-industrialized Spain there is no political academic in the world who would put his relationship with Reagan as in the same solar system as that of Reagan's with Thatcher symbolically, let alone the same planet.
The alliance between Thatcher and Reagan is notorious and whilst I have yet to find a book about Feliz Gonzalez's 'special relationship' with Reagan there are a plethora of books written on the subject of Thatcher and Reagan's relationship, this simply one of many. http://www.amazon.com/Ronald-Reagan-.../dp/1595230475
As for me being 'over politisized, AGAIN.' Well, politics is just another example I have used of Britain's perception that they tend to define themselves closer to America culturally than their European neighbours. And as this thread is about whether Britain is culturally closer to America than Europe (not whether Spain is) I don't think it's such an unreasonable point to highlight. The feeling you have that Spain does too doesn't disprove my point in the slightest. Like I've already said, it's irrelevant.
I'm sure there are many countries who feel that they are close to America culturally due to America's monolithic commercial and financial power which has enabled them to export worldwide a whole host of cultural reference points which we all recognise. It doesn't change the fact that Britain has embraced Amercian cultural, economic and political values more fiercely than any other country in Europe.
And yes I know Spanish radio plays Spanish/international/English/American pop
music and yes I also know there are also loads of English pop stations too (that usually repeatedly play the same playlist of regurgitated easy listening hits from the 80's for some reason).
But as far as Britain goes, the only time you'll hear Spanish music is if your girlfriend has somehow persuaded you into taking salsa dancing lessons. As for commercial or recognised radio stations though you'd have more chance of a station manager requisitioning a morning breakfast show represented by a stone deaf stoner with a record collection of Reptillian Death Metal than hearing the latest Spanish pop sensation.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 11-10-2011 at 08:05 AM..
One aspect I haven't seen mentioned much is religion. A lot of Americans are significantly more religious than British people are comfortable with. Even in the more liberal parts of the USA, the areas are awash with regular church-goers. The British are much more closer to Europeans when it comes to apathy towards religion, at least those in western Europe, although it seemed to me that even Europeans were far more religious than the British they were far less so than Americans.
One aspect I haven't seen mentioned much is religion. A lot of Americans are significantly more religious than British people are comfortable with. Even in the more liberal parts of the USA, the areas are awash with regular church-goers. The British are much more closer to Europeans when it comes to apathy towards religion, at least those in western Europe, although it seemed to me that even Europeans were far more religious than the British they were far less so than Americans.
Sweden, Czech Republic, France, Norway, Finland and Denmark are all European countries which have a higher population of people without religion. List of religious populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Britain comes in around 12th in the table in this regard. Having said this though Britain is certainly as multi-cultural as the United States and hosts the 15th largest Jewish population) (the US has the 4th) and the second largest population of Sikhs.
Neither America or Britain feature on the highest percentage of Christian population readings with the highest placed European country being Romania, hardly a country widely recognised for its cultural symnetry with the United States. The southern States of America (I'm sure will surprise nobody) are resoundingly more religious than the Northern States.
Unsurprisingly Spain has a very high rate of Catholics at 87.5 per cent of the population defining themselves as Catholic. Italy the highest at 96% overall. Canada actually has a higher rate of Catholics than America at 44.4per cent. America stands at 75th in the world with 26.3 per cent Catholic which dwarfs Britain's 8.51 percent Statistics by Country, by Percentage Catholic [Catholic-Hierarchy].
What these statistics prove though is difficult to say. It's certainly a point worth making and I agree that the United states remains a far more religious country than the United Kingdom (if not certain European countries such as Ireland, Poland and Romania) but seeing as a country such as Cuba has a higher pecentage of its population that is christian I'm not sure how relevant religion is as a barometer of how much much countries can be compared culturally.
It is, however worth noting that America has the highest number of Christians living within its borders than anywhere else in the world, if not the highest percentage.
The fact that countries such as Spain or Italy have large rates of people that define themselves as Catholics is not illustrative. Most people define themselves as Catholics "culturally", but not as believers.
They never go to church except for burials and weddings (civil weddings are also very common). Also, we don't have many diferent confessions due to our history (Holy Inquisition lasted until 1824).
Since Catholic culture (Festivities, Art, Eastern Week, Christmas, Major festivities, names, customs) are an integral part of Spanish and Italian culture, it's practically impossible to be Spanish and Italian and not being "culturally Catholic".
And to answer another post by the same OP, Felipe González was not known to be a friend of Reagan because his voters were socialists, leftists, many antiamericans, but he was fiercely proamerican (NATO referendum), he followed reaganomics and he allowed the presence of American nuclear weapons in Spain. Of course, he always did everthing possible to appear as an antiamerican socialists. He was so proamerican, that the Spanish communist party went against him.
No, we don't have much English music from England in the pop charts nowdays, no English TV series except Mr. Beam (a lookalike of our current president), Doctor Who and a couple more. The pop music we hear here is just the same barrage of local and international fabrications such as Shakira, Lady Gaga, just the same stuff you can hear all around the world.
As to the fact that England is closer culturally to the US, having lived in both countries I think that British are entirely different in every aspect. The US is a reaction to England, that might explain why they are so different. The US was founded by refugees that did want to start from scratch and create an entirely different country, and they did it.
Large amounts of people in Spain, Ireland and Italy will go to church regularly.
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' like Reagan and Thatcher are in this msnbc article. 
.' Well, politics is just another example I have used of Britain's perception that they tend to define themselves closer to America culturally than their European neighbours. And as this thread is about whether Britain is culturally closer to America than Europe (not whether Spain is) I don't think it's such an unreasonable point to highlight. The feeling you have that Spain does too doesn't disprove my point in the slightest. Like I've already said, it's irrelevant. 
