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The Civil War was a terrible thing. Families are still split following it. It came about because of the wording of the treaty, and because Michael Collins did not hold out for a 32 county republic.
The biggest point of difference in the Dáil debates was the oath. There are surprisingly few references to partition.
The biggest point of difference in the Dáil debates was the oath. There are surprisingly few references to partition.
The oath was a big stumbling block, but Cathal Brugha said that MC had given away the 6 counties.... and Brugha never accepted that MC was the brain behind winning the war.... Dev likewise.
I met a very gracious British lady after a tour of Kilmainham Jail last year. She seemed to be distressed and my wife asked her if there was anything we could do. The lady replied, "Did we REALLY do that to you?"
And one of the sad things about that too is that schools are not teaching history as it should be. I spoke with some young people and asked them about the War of Indepedence. They didn't know, though some believed that some kind of agreement had been reached peaceably... though they had heard of the Black & Tans, but only one knew about the 'Tans turning their guns on players and spectators at a game in Croke Park.
Some say that keeping history alive gives renegades like the RIRA a cause. I disagree.
Some say that keeping history alive gives renegades like the RIRA a cause. I disagree.
It depends how it's taught. History as taught in Irish schools has mostly given a one sided and inaccurate view.
If there was enough time to cover the issues thoroughly and analyse them from a historical standpoint, then it's certainly worth doing.
At the minute though, I'm not a big fan of political history being taught in schools.
I don't think the British lady should have been so upset by the way. It's not like she should shoulder the responsibility for anything that happened almost 100 years ago.
It depends how it's taught. History as taught in Irish schools has mostly given a one sided and inaccurate view.
If there was enough time to cover the issues thoroughly and analyse them from a historical standpoint, then it's certainly worth doing.
At the minute though, I'm not a big fan of political history being taught in schools.
I don't think the British lady should have been so upset by the way. It's not like she should shoulder the responsibility for anything that happened almost 100 years ago.
History (Anglo Irish) as taught in Irish schools effectively ceased when the recent 'Troubles' began. We also around that time became one of the few countries to cease publicly celebrating our indepedence.
As for political history being taught in Irish schools. I believe that if it isn't, and if it isn't done as it should be there will be a generation who will be perplexed by the plethora of historical walking tours, against their lack of education.
The British lady? Perhaps Kilmainham wasn't an appropriate place for her to tour if she was sensitive, or maybe she was just touched by what she had seen and heard. A lot are touched when they are told the story of the Rising, the later executions and in particular by the way James Connolly was executed.
History (Anglo Irish) as taught in Irish schools effectively ceased when the recent 'Troubles' began. We also around that time became one of the few countries to cease publicly celebrating our indepedence.
Have to correct you there mate.
The period 1870-1970 was all that was taught at the Leaving Certificate level.
Since c.2005, the syllabus has broadened, but the revolutionary period is not neglected.
The period 1870-1970 was all that was taught at the Leaving Certificate level.
Since c.2005, the syllabus has broadened, but the revolutionary period is not neglected.
Well then the young people I have spoken with, both Irish and British, have terrble memories or were sleeping in class. I ask about personalities, dates etc and get blank looks.
It's only recently (since the Peace Process began) that we've once again publicly, if quietly, resumed our commemmoration of 1916.
Full stops paull, I found that very hard to ready sorry ......
You're not looking at it right. Its about killing a person of a Police Force of a foreign Government. All lines are crossed when anybody gets killed these days IMHO, it all needs to be done politically. The British Government are occupying part of an Island that they believe needs to be part of the Republic of Ireland. Thats all that the killing boils down to.
The fact they are calling out Catholics who join the PSNI (I think thats what its called off hand) is a warning that they will kill everybody they feel fit within that force. Again, its about a foreign police force on Irish land. Not about Catholic vs Protestant at this point.
Similar things would happen to any Protestant joining a Catholic organisation from British Paramilitaries that the media and people like to forget even exists.
Difference is the loyalist paramilitaries aren't threatening and killing people at the moment and causing disruptive security alerts every 5 mins. The I Ran Away haven't yet targeted any ordinary loyalists, and have stuck to security forces. If that changes then things will quickly detoriorate again. The RIRA are just the provos under a different name, same people same weapons!
If that changes then things will quickly detoriorate again. The RIRA are just the provos under a different name, same people same weapons!
Of course they haven't targetted ordinary loyalists, the republican movement has always been more concerned with official state targets. Sectarian killing is not their main goal, although they have undoubtedly indulged in it from time to time.
Killing a loyalist serves no purpose from an RIRA perspective, while killing a state employee certainly does.
The RIRA are not just the provos under a different name. The provisional movement is in government in Stormont.
The current band of militants include a small group of disillusioned former provos, and a gathering of thugs who were never aligned to the provisional movement.
I am not a supporter of republicanism in any way, but I do think the distinction between the different groups and their aims, is an important one.
Just sorry that there was so much bloodshed on both sides...But as an Irish woman I will always yearn
for a full Republic of Ireland of all the counties. However in the north I think they prefer being "british"
am I wrong?
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