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No tension at all i have noticed between blacks and whites. Maybe in some small parts of outer London there are bits but i think it is more about small gangs in the rundown areas.
There is however a lot of tension between islamic groups and Brits. They burn Poppies on 11/11 and call us racist for calling them out. They get away with everything because they claim 'racism'. They don't adhere to the protestant country that this is and are forcing Islam on us. Why? No idea but i hate this country at present. It is so easy to immigrate into this country everyone does it. A small island like ours should not house 63million people. Where Australia has 20million. Why is this? Tight border control compared to a pathetically run country by moron like Blair/Brown and Thatcher who killed this country.
We travel to an Islamic state and we bide why there ways, because we went there to experience there culture. If we don't we get called racist. They come here and force Islam on us, and dont bide by our culture. If we don't accept them, we are called racist.
Its a lose lose situation for this once great nation.
I love reading about racial tension being just about nil there in the UK and pray that it can be done across these United States eventually as well.
I agree with what I bolded, as many of my friends from Germany claim to be true there as well. In one town, children are not allowed to bring anything pork to school for lunch and even piggy banks have been banned for sale! WTF is with that?? BUT because of Germany's past, the govt tends to let it go....and that is WRONG as you both are going to lose your culture, and both governments need to see this, and keep a balance that will benefit all.
Last edited by Sagitarrius48; 08-04-2011 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: grammar
pakistanis are the the main problem here in dundee, other muslims are fine, but the pakistani muslims seem more separate and full of hate towards whites, clearly not all of them, but a fairly high proportion of them, this small city has the second highest amount of asians outside glasgow, more than bigger cities such as edinburgh and aberdeen, so the sheer amount of pakistani muslims and their reluctance to integrate has caused many problems, and i can't see the two sets of communities ever getting along
I love reading about racial tension being just about nil there in the UK and pray that it can be done across these United States eventually as well.
I agree with what I bolded, as many of my friends from Germany claim to be true there as well. In one town, children are not allowed to bring anything pork to school for lunch and even piggy banks have been banned for sale! WTF is with that?? BUT because of Germany's past, the govt tends to let it go....and that is WRONG as you both are going to lose your culture, and both governments need to see this, and keep a balance that will benefit all.
Yeah, people love coming up with these stories. Something strange happens when you ask for some actual evidence, though...
What I always found interesting is that in the UK racial minorities generally pick up the accents of the areas they live in whereas in the US they tend to develop distinct speaking patterns. In the US you can frequently discern race over the phone which is unusual in the UK except with recent immigrants.
Yeah, people love coming up with these stories. Something strange happens when you ask for some actual evidence, though...
Here is the actual "evidence" for part of what I said. The other I just will believe what my friend told me as I don't think a university professor would "tell tales".
What I always found interesting is that in the UK racial minorities generally pick up the accents of the areas they live in whereas in the US they tend to develop distinct speaking patterns. In the US you can frequently discern race over the phone which is unusual in the UK except with recent immigrants.
OMGOSH!!! I was thinking the same thing and was going to ask, but I didn't know how to approach it. I think since most of the people SOUND the same no matter what the race (and with a couple of dialects but still British), that may have helped in the prejudice being not as rampant? I hate to say it, but dialect does prejudice people: usually the educated from the non-educated and the mainstay British dialect makes everyone sound educated. But too, I know that they ended slavery sooner than the USA, plus they had all these colonies that lead to immigration with these new arrivals mainly already assimilated and use to Uk rule and such...
No tension at all i have noticed between blacks and whites. Maybe in some small parts of outer London there are bits but i think it is more about small gangs in the rundown areas.
There is however a lot of tension between islamic groups and Brits. They burn Poppies on 11/11 and call us racist for calling them out. They get away with everything because they claim 'racism'. They don't adhere to the protestant country that this is and are forcing Islam on us. Why? No idea but i hate this country at present. It is so easy to immigrate into this country everyone does it. A small island like ours should not house 63million people. Where Australia has 20million. Why is this? Tight border control compared to a pathetically run country by moron like Blair/Brown and Thatcher who killed this country.
We travel to an Islamic state and we bide why there ways, because we went there to experience there culture. If we don't we get called racist. They come here and force Islam on us, and dont bide by our culture. If we don't accept them, we are called racist.
Its a lose lose situation for this once great nation.
I propose that anyone who thinks Matt is a serious social commentator addresses the following points.
1. Matt says that there is, "a lot of tension between islamic groups and Brits." I don't know how Matt defines "a lot" of tension, but I would call Bosnia a "lot" of tension between Muslims and non-Muslims. I would say that there was "a lot" of tensions between the Hutu and Tutsi's in Rwanda. There is certainly not a lot of tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in the UK. There is a minor and politically irrelevant dispute between religious nutcases (a large proportion of whom are white British converts) and groups like the English Defence League, who are massively misguided people who have decided that Islam is a threat to their pub quiz. The huge majority of British Muslims and non-Muslims are entirely distanced from this facade of a conflict, which in reality amounts to a bunch of football hooligans clashing with a bunch of deluded religionists. I know plenty of Muslims in real life and I haven't a bad word to say about any of them.
2. Matt says, "They burn Poppies on 11/11 and call us racist for calling them out. They get away with everything because they claim 'racism'." Firstly, Matt is referring to a protest of around 30 people, who are deeply radicalised and delusional young men. There are 1.5 million British Muslims. If Matt is prepared to judge an entire sub-section of people on the basis that 30 out of 1.5 million participated, then Matt presumably also believes that white people are pedophiles, that the Irish are terrorists and that Americans are universally fat and useless. Matt complains that "they get away with everything because they claim racism." I ask Matt or anyone else to show me where any of the 'protestors' avoided a conviction because he/she claimed that racism was at work. (I ask this question rhetorically because I know that Matt is strongly mistaken in his statement.)
3. Matt says, "They don't adhere to the protestant country that this is and are forcing Islam on us." What Matt hasn't explained is that 51% of British people including myself identify as having no religion, or state they are agnostic or atheist. (British Social Attitudes Survey 2009) If Matt seriously wants to stick with this argument, he first needs to address why I as an atheist have to live under an unelected Head of State who is also head of the Church of England. He needs to explain why the Church of England get public funding for many of their schools. If this was a majority Christian country then fair enough, but it isn't. For every single example Matt can give you of the law being amended to cater for inclusion for Muslims, I can give you 10 infinitely more profound examples of how Christianity wields an undemocratic and unaccountable system on Britain. For the record, I don't really care that the Church of England gets given public money to indoctrinate schoolchildren, I have confidence in British schoolchildren to grow up and acknowledge that what they've being taught is superstitious (if harmless) nonsense. However Matt has a different view, Matt is the calibre of person who thinks it's a big deal that school dinners now include a halal option. (Presumably he also objects to a vegetarian option.) Matt needs to explain how Islam is being forced on him, and I promise Matt that I will provide my 10 examples of Christianity being "forced" on the majority of the non-religious people of this country for each example he can give of Islam being "forced" upon himself. (I know that Islam isn't being forced on him, but I'm prepared to give hundreds of examples of Christianities unrequested and unwanted influence on my life if it comes to it.)
4. Matt says, " It is so easy to immigrate into this country everyone does it." What Matt doesn't realise is that for every foreign migrant, there are tens of thousands more who don't make it in because of our tight border controls. My girlfriend (an American daughter of a copyright lawyer who spent over £100k of her parents money on undergraduate and postgrad degrees in this country) was ejected from the country last year because she didn't fulfill the points criteria to remain. When Matt says that anyone can emigrate here he is delusional. Like every other country on earth, immigrants can apply for Visa's, they can marry a national or they can seek asylum. On every count, Britain has a low amount of immigration compared to any other country in Europe. (Or for that matter Australia.) Matt continues by saying, "A small island like ours should not house 63million people. Where Australia has 20million. Why is this? Tight border control compared to a pathetically run country by moron like Blair/Brown and Thatcher who killed this country." What Matt doesn't realise is that we use a border control system which is actually based on the Australian/New Zealand points based system, which is what makes his statement all the more ironically mis-informed. Matt also neglects to mention that for all its land mass, the interior of Australia is practically uninhabitable because it's a waterless and arid desert. If Matt had ever been to Sydney, or Perth, or Melbourne, he would realise immediately that the population densities in those cities is immensely greater than anywhere in the North of England where he is from. If Matt imagines for one second that Britain is 'overpopulated' he'd do well to visit the Australian cities he so admires in his ignorance and see for himself how many people can be crammed into a square mile. He'd do well to enquire of Australians whether or not they think they have illegal immigration under control. In both contexts Matt would get a rude awakening.
5. This next part was so delusioned that I relished responding to it. Matt says, "We travel to an Islamic state and we bide why there ways, because we went there to experience there culture. If we don't we get called racist. They come here and force Islam on us, and dont bide by our culture. If we don't accept them, we are called racist." Let's examine the only country claiming to be a Sunni Islamic State, i.e. Saudi Arabia. According to Matt, all the British ex-pats in Saudi Arabia are cultural connoisseurs, no doubt the sorts of people who spend half their life working clearing land mines in the 3rd world and the other half enjoying afternoon tea with Sheikh Al-Suchandsuch. However I have sad news for Matt. Having been to Saudi Arabia and met with British ex-pats, they actually live in walled compounds with guard dogs, electric fences and permanent security staff. Far from "experienc[ing] their culture", the majority of British ex-pats go to extraordinary lengths to avoid Saudi's entirely. Practically none of them bother even trying to learn anything other than tourist Arabic, a great proportion of them break Saudi law by illegally importing and brewing alcohol for illegal parties inside their compounds. Most British ex-pats view the Saudi's as having a barbaric legal system which they want no part of, they want to earn their oil money and live a Western lifestyle as if they were in a ridiculously hot equivalent of a seaside resort. By comparison, Muslims in the UK are a Godsend. While I can accept that Muslim majority areas like Bradford or parts of Manchester are socially discohesive and a bad thing; compared to our emigrants who build electric fences around themselves and break foreign laws for their own pleasure, I would take our Muslims every time.
6. Finally Matt says, "Its a lose lose situation for this once great nation." Matt's finishing touch is another touch of classic irony. He states that Britain was once a 'great nation'. What Matt has not mentioned is that the very Pakistani Muslims he hates so much started fleeing to Britain (the colonial power) in the late 1940's when partition hit India. Matt doesn't acknowledge that the very people he is criticising are amongst the very people who made Britain a great country. We conquered India and we allowed British people to emigrate there freely. It is only fair that Indians (by extension Pakistani's) were permitted to emigrate here. Indians and Pakistani's fought on our side in the First World War, in the Second World War. They died by the hundreds of thousands for the very same country that you are calling 'great'. I put it to you that you know next to nothing about the sacrifices Indians (and Pakistani's) have made for this country, because if you did you would not be making the obscenely stupid comments that you have done in this thread and others.
I'll give you an example of something I saw with my own eyes - not heresay. I lived
most of my life in a northern english town. Where I lived had a school nearby for 11 to
16 year old children, almost 100% white. This school had plenty if spare capacity, so
muslim children were bussed in from across town where there was a shortage of school
places. I used to pass this school at lunchtime often for the next few years. I'd see the
kid's milling around the school grounds, and just outside. I never once saw a mixed group
of muslim and white children. They classed together, but outside did'nt mix. Very sad.
OMGOSH!!! I was thinking the same thing and was going to ask, but I didn't know how to approach it. I think since most of the people SOUND the same no matter what the race (and with a couple of dialects but still British), that may have helped in the prejudice being not as rampant? I hate to say it, but dialect does prejudice people: usually the educated from the non-educated and the mainstay British dialect makes everyone sound educated. But too, I know that they ended slavery sooner than the USA, plus they had all these colonies that lead to immigration with these new arrivals mainly already assimilated and use to Uk rule and such...
Or am I way off base???
The "rough" accents are similar too so it's not an issue of education.
Having lived in both countries I think there are two issues -
1. American society isn't as diverse as it appears to be. Many times racial minorities live in distinct communities and areas. Here in NJ Newark is primarily African American, Paterson Middle Eastern and even Staten Island is Italian Americans. They have all developed their own accents.
2. As an immigrant society, people like to make themselves distinct by focussing on their "heritage", thus Scots-Americans (frequently 6th generation Americans) Irish-Americans, Hungarian-Americans etc. Many minorities maintain distinct speaking patterns as a way of forging ethnic unity. That pressure doesn't exist in the UK to the same extent where people essentially become British by nationality more than by self defined "heritage".
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