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I think we've already come to the conclusion you get more for your $, house and land-wise in Portland as compared to even Glasgow, but also as compared to Seattle ($$$) or even Eugene, Bellingham, etc. Admittedly, the detached examples Eoin came up with are also quite suburban. Should I take it Glasgow is considered relatively affordable in terms of UK cities? Or average?
I think the straightforward answer to your question is that yes, Glasgow is probably (in real estate terms) the UK's equivalent of Portland. There are other cities in Scotland and the UK which are cheaper, for instance Dundee in Scotland, or Liverpool in England. Cheaper again might be somewhere like Belfast in Northern Ireland. However, compared to London or even the larger English cities, your money will go further in Glasgow. (Profoundly more so than in the south of England!)
At the same time, Glasgow is historically a bit of an oddity. It used to be the Second City of the British Empire after London, both in population size and economic output. At one point between 1/4 and 1/3 of all iron ships in the world were built here, and shipping was the most important industry of all in Britain's maritime empire. The city was the major staging point for most of Britains trade to the Caribbean for centuries. Though historically there was grinding poverty in the inner city amongst the working class labourers, the rich were so rich that they felt compelled to finance civic buildings which are unjustifiably lavish.
I'd listed a few earlier which were closeby to the flat I'd mentioned in my response to Whatsthenews. However take the following as an example. I'm an all-round pretty unimportant local government worker on a very average salary and this is my office from the outside:
I imagine that if I was an ordinary guy living in 19th Century Glasgow and saw such patent extravagance being put into a building whose sole purpose is to house a few hundred administrators, and a handful of local councillors, I would be enraged! (Karl Marx even went as far as to predict that when the revolution came to Western Europe, it would start in Scotland.) All that said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I have to hold back from grinning every day when I walk through the door. Other peoples offices have a staff canteen, we have a banquetting hall!
While Glasgow might on some levels be the equivalent of Portland in terms of relatively cheaper property and therefore (for the purposes of this discussion) a decent UK surrogate for Portland, its historical legacy sets it apart from relatively "new" cities like Portland. While Portland can no doubt offer much that Glasgow cannot, trying to compare the two in any objective manner could be enormously difficult. The priorities of those planning (or not planning!) the cities has drawn the places in very different directions, and it could only really be personal taste which could settle the matter completely.
If you don't mind I'm going to offer one final example of the sort of place that you could buy which is within the Glasgow area. The previous examples I gave were both within ~40 minutes journey from door to office. However, given that the public transport situation in Portland seems to be so much slower than here, I'll give an example of the sort of place you could get which would still be better than Portland with respect to public transport, but isn't quite as good for transport as the places I mentioned previously.
Taking into account the following which you seem to regard as quite important:
Reasonably substantial private garden.
Access to scenic cycle routes.
Decent public transport.
Walkable amenities.
Preferably a house that you could bring guests to and make them jealous.
Reasonably affordable on 1(.1) persons budget.
Entirely appropriate if one day in the future if you decide to start a family.
Check this:
3 Solsgirth House, Langmuir Road, East Dunbartonshire, G66 | Property for sale | GSPC - Glasgow Solicitors Property Centre (http://www.gspc.co.uk/property/144928/ - broken link)
It's a conversion of a manor house, so unfortunately you'd only have the ground floor. However in terms of sq. footage the living room alone is almost 500 square feet. We've been talking a lot about square footage here, but if you wanted to add a dimension and talk about cubic feet then this place would take the biscuit. The ceiling is almost 15 feet high!
The schedule (the particulars) shows the room layout and measurements in more detail:
http://media.gspc.co.uk/resources/property/00/00/03/49/57/326schedule.pdf (broken link)
If you have the map up from the above, you will notice that the house is on the edge of the countryside. There is a canal about 100 metres north of the house. That's the Forth and Clyde canal which links one side of Scotland to the other. Along both banks there is a walk and cycle path which (if you felt so inclined) you could follow into the centre of Glasgow or Edinburgh and back in a day. Alternatively, in an area like that (which is pretty much out into the countryside) you wouldn't really need to follow a cycle route at all, on the B roads you'll only see a car once every 10 minutes. Just get onto a minor road like the one I've linked below, and you'd literally have hundreds of miles of paved cycle path more or less to yourself. Solsgirth, Kirkintilloch, Glasgow G66 3XN, UK to Buchanan St, Glasgow G1, UK - Google Maps
If you wanted a more pre-planned route there seem to be many recommended routes for Cyclists around East Dunbartonshire of which many go through Kirkintilloch available here: East Dunbartonshire Cycle routes - Cycle Route Planner
The UK is divided into hundreds of Local Authority areas (normally called Local Councils.) The above property is in a Council Area called East Dunbartonshire. Every few years the Readers Digest (It's a sort of middle/upper-middle class magazine) commission a study to determine where the best place in the UK to raise a family is. East Dunbartonshire wins that title pretty much every time. It has amongst the best schools, the best in the National Healthcare system, the lowest crime, the most affordable good housing, the strongest sense of 'community' (I don't know how they measured that, but having been many times to the area I don't dispute it) and the highest employment rates in the UK. Scotland voted best place to bring up a family - Telegraph
For a Fixed Price of £180,000 ($285,000) it's probably towards the more expensive end of the range for a 1.1 person mortgage. To really make that work you'd need around a £30k/year job, but that isn't wildly unrealistic for somebody with qualifications and experience in their field. Wages in Scotland are generally lower than in the south of England, which goes some way to explaining why property prices are also lower. However, without going into gory detail I don't think the English get a particularly good deal out of this. Proportionately they spend more of their incomes on their homes than Scots do and they certainly don't have larger houses!
Another important point (which unusually is political rather than anything else), is that the Scottish Government is profoundly more "socialist" than the English one. (As it pertains to social issues in England.) We have a devolved parliament (The Scottish Government) who have authority over a lot of issues like education and health. To take university tuition fee's as an example, in England no student has to pay the full cost of tuition. The Government subsidises the system quite heavily and no student will pay anything near the cost of their course. However in Scotland (for Scottish students) we have abolished any fee's at all for students. Nobody pays tuition fee's, the only debt that students are left when they graduate is if they take a student loan to cover their living expenses, and interest rates are not for profit and set at the rate of inflation. Even then students don't have to pay back a penny until their income hits a certain threshold, and on top of that if a student comes from a less wealthy background, much of their loan is made up in the form of a grant that they don't ever have to pay back.
You'll also be aware that the UK Government runs a National Health Service, but you may not be aware that there are actually several different National Health Services in the UK. (One for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.) The systems are very well integrated so the patient is unlikely to notice anything different about going to a hospital in England or Scotland, but some notable differences is that while in England prescription charges are capped at £7.40, in Scotland the Government abolished the prescription charge altogether. In Scotland other services like visiting the optician for a checkup is also "free". We go much further than the English in other major aspects as well. The Government here reckons that the elderly shouldn't have to face selling their house and moving into retirement homes if they go downhill in their dotage. Where medically appropriate, the elderly in Scotland get Government paid carers go out to their homes and carry out household tasks like cleaning and doing whatever jobs for them that they find difficult with age. In addition, those past retirement age now get free local transport at off-peak times and all they need to do is carry their ID pass with them. The article below summarises the difference in attitude north and south of the border, albeit I disagree with the authors conclusion. He obviously doesn't quite grasp which tiny country has 60% of the entire European Unions proven oil reserves and 25% of the entire EU's renewable energy potential.
On the same topic of renewable energy, Scotland is now powering ahead. The Government target had originally been to encourage private enterprise to produce 50% of electricity from renewable sources within 10 years. Because we were so ahead of schedule on that the Scottish Government has upped that to 80% by 2020 and I believe the Government is considering upping the target again because we're going to meet it so easily. With all the fears at the moment about peak oil, Scotland is positioned amazingly well in international terms. We have colossal oil reserves for the size of the population, while at the same time we're becoming radically less reliant on oil. Our train lines are now heavily electrified. We're re-introducing an electified tram system in the capital. The Government pays for people to have their houses insulated so that they use less energy. The Goverment recently purchased and sent out several energy efficient long-lasting light bulbs to every house in the country. There is a widespread confidence amongst Scots that the Scottish Government has a plan and a direction.
Anyway I digress. If you wanted to live in a country where lefty-liberal values reign supreme, then anywhere in Northern Europe would suit you. If you can understand the Scottish accent and consider us to speak something resembling English, then I would certainly say that of the whole UK, you'd probably be better off in Scotland than England. Ultimately though as already mentioned, the family/friends situation might (and perhaps should!) make the UK less appealing.
Hi, im from england lived here all my life in a small village in the north east near newcastle. Englands weather is mostly the same around the country. It seems you will prefer the weather here than the states but I dont think people who live here think the same lol.
We are in a recession aswell at the moment like the states if u have a profession it will be easier to find a job but there seems to be lack of jobs everywhere at the minute. There are alot of places in england where u could move with your family, theres many villages and towns around each major city so you can move into the suburbs but get into the city easy enough. You say you have visited york, this would suit what your looking for, has places for bike rides, hikes, is alot more cheaper than the south of the country like london etc, most houses have gardens or land for your gardeining and it has great schools and universitys for your kids. I would visit places in england first and get a feel for the place before u make any final decions, I have wanted to move to the states since I left school but i think people just always think the grass is greener on the other side when sometimes its not.
Hi, im from england lived here all my life in a small village in the north east near newcastle. Englands weather is mostly the same around the country. It seems you will prefer the weather here than the states but I dont think people who live here think the same lol. We are in a recession aswell at the moment like the states if u have a profession it will be easier to find a job but there seems to be lack of jobs everywhere at the minute. There are alot of places in england where u could move with your family, theres many villages and towns around each major city so you can move into the suburbs but get into the city easy enough. You say you have visited york, this would suit what your looking for, has places for bike rides, hikes, is alot more cheaper than the south of the country like london etc, most houses have gardens or land for your gardeining and it has great schools and universitys for your kids. I would visit places in england first and get a feel for the place before u make any final decions, I have wanted to move to the states since I left school but i think people just always think the grass is greener on the other side when sometimes its not.
Good luck in the future whatever you decide to do
We are NOT in a recession - nor are the States... not yet anyway.
If the air masses are strong enough in their respective areas during the summer there can sometimes be a massive difference in temperature between the far north/north-west of Scotland (including the Islands) and south-east of England - usually around 10-15°C (18-27°F) but can be as much as 20°C (36°F) or more. An example of this could be that in the height of summer the northern isles could be sitting at around 15°C (59°F) and areas around London could be basking at 30°C (86°F)
If the air masses are strong enough in their respective areas during the summer there can sometimes be a massive difference in temperature between the far north/north-west of Scotland (including the Islands) and south-east of England - usually around 10-15°C (18-27°F) but can be as much as 20°C (36°F) or more. An example of this could be that in the height of summer the northern isles could be sitting at around 15°C (59°F) and areas around London could be basking at 30°C (86°F)
?????
By this I meant England not Scotland. I live in north east england yes its a bit cooler up here than london etc but the weather isnt as different as just say texas and chicago, we have similar weather it hardly ever goes about 30 degrees even in the summer
We are NOT in a recession - nor are the States... not yet anyway.
We were in recession this time last year and our economy has not got any better so what does that tell you?
OK - the economy has grown (albeit by a smaller amount than hoped) which means technically no recession. If you want to be smart then I suggest you first try to understand what it is you are talking about
OK - the economy has grown (albeit by a smaller amount than hoped) which means technically no recession. If you want to be smart then I suggest you first try to understand what it is you are talking about
I do no what I am talking about, this country is in a recession wether you want to beleive it or not. The goverment wont admit it but if you look at the unemployment rates they have doubled so if this isnt a recession what is??
I do no what I am talking about, this country is in a recession wether you want to beleive it or not. The goverment wont admit it but if you look at the unemployment rates they have doubled so if this isnt a recession what is??
I don't want to go tit for tat over something so painfully stupid so I'll explain this to you ONCE: economists use the word 'recession' to describe two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. Being as we have had a positive GDP growth for the last 6 quarters we are NOT in a recession: that is a fact. The UK entered a recession in Q2 of 2008, according to the UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) and exited it in Q4 of 2009.
It may feel like we are still in recession because of the long and harsh impact on jobs. The government's austerity will slow any recovery and possibly push us back to negative growth (this is why we hear fear of a 'double dip' i.e a return to recession). In fact the only thing holding the economy up is government spending (the same is true in the US).
You wil obviously have to spend a long time on the basics - remember "'I' before 'e' except after....
Thanks, News. We've done some extensive looking in Portland and are more interested in the City proper or very adjacent, less so in the farther suburbs (unless job took me there). But you make the point it is an option. Where we looked (primarily east side of Portland), really 3 BR's were starting in the low to mid 200s without needing a lot of work.
Not sure I'd call yr first example beautiful compared to Edwardian architecture, plus it has no yard to speak of, and behind the trees and little greenbelt shown in the photograph are the truck bays back of a shopping center. Not that its a bad home for the price. Just saying - below 200s-250 there's probably a reason for it!
The 2 condos you show - one is a bank-owned short sale and one is surely a "UK" size (646 sq. ft.) plus being in a 1970's concrete mid-rise building (warning: HOA dues!).
I think we've already come to the conclusion you get more for your $, house and land-wise in Portland as compared to even Glasgow, but also as compared to Seattle ($$$) or even Eugene, Bellingham, etc. Admittedly, the detached examples Eoin came up with are also quite suburban. Should I take it Glasgow is considered relatively affordable in terms of UK cities? Or average?
While having an acre to garden has its charms (particularly for those of us who want to garden, rather than drive around our bluegrass domain in a riding lawnmower spewing smoke!), so does city life - the 5,000 sq. ft. typical Portland eastside lot would be plenty big enough unless I really want to farm, an activity best done outside the city. Especially if one considers that the positive potentials of a city (walkability, transit, and preservation of natural spaces) are incompatible with everyone having an acre - the notion that more private land is better does not necessarily play out. Admittedly, my first post asked about the option of a .5 - 1 acre as an option - for example, our search in E Portland a couple years turned up an old farmhouse on an odd-shaped 1/2 acre, high 200s, backing to a bike trail/creek corridor - one of those remnants of earlier years ...
I though you wanted half an acre and a vegetable garden!
I doubt you'll get that very close to the city for the low to mid 200s!
You could easily in other areas of the US,but not up there.
So now you only want a 5000sq ft lot ( about .1 acre)close to the city, and prefer the east side.
I'm also curious to know if you've ever lived in an old (by UK standards-here more than 10 yrs old is an old home) home?
An Edwardian home can almost be guaranteed to be drafty and cold and maybe require new windows, new roofing ,heating ,wiring etc etc etc etc.
Remember you'll be using your heating for maybe 10 months of the year.
The first example wasn't a comparison to an Edwardian house, but to the box-like, tiny suburban deatched the EOIN posted a link too
99 Acacia Way, Cambuslang, South Lanarkshire, G72 | Property for sale | GSPC - Glasgow Solicitors Property Centre (http://www.gspc.co.uk/property/187110/ - broken link)
You said Just saying - below 200s-250 there's probably a reason for it!
and reasons for lower prices are fairly universal world-wide eg location, sze, neighborhood,noise,lot size, local facilities, schools, beauty etc etc.
If you look at the schedule it gives the room dimensions and by my calculations the whole house is around 8-900 sq ft. Now you know why I said our 1100 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath 1920s home was considered quite large for an attached home.
The house on Portland suburbs was 1500 s4 ft and sold for 114,000 GBP and
the asking price for this home in Glasgow is 150,000 GBP. It looks like typical UK suburbia ie a big housing estate where all the homes look very similar and each home has 2.5 kids. Also it's surrounded by a railway lines and industrial parks.
I looked at the nearest cinema , of which there are many, and the 2 nearest were around 3 miles away, 18 mins or so in the car (that's about 10 miles per hour average speed with gas prices at around $8 per gallon) and between 1 and 2 hrs by public transport.
So those railway lines and other wonderful public transit links are really beneficial as long as you want to go where they go!This is typical of local transport in many cities in the UK.
Foreclosures are still homes you can buy and their sold prices affect the average prices in an area.
Bear in mind that in the UK if you buy in a "block" (eg the tenements EOIN spoke of), which often smaller cheaper flats are in you will pay maintance charges, but you won't get a rooftop pool or much else , even parking, in most at the $150,000 mark.
I think it's highly unlikely that the 1 bed condos Eoin was talking about will be 700 sq ft.
This one at 115,000 gbp is a little over 400s4 ft
http://media.gspc.co.uk/resources/property/00/00/09/70/46/16schedule.pdf (broken link)
This is just over 500sq ft for 120,000 gbp
3/2, 57 Rose Street, Glasgow, City Centre, G3 | Property for sale | GSPC - Glasgow Solicitors Property Centre (http://www.gspc.co.uk/property/190379/ - broken link)
This 2 bed conversion is 138,000gbp and has a little over 700sqft
http://media.gspc.co.uk/resources/property/00/00/10/57/18/8schedule.pdf (broken link)
The cheapest one is around 200 GBP per sq ft or $350.
I think the condos in Portland compare very favorably.
You know this home is only 900 sq ft and 100sqft of that is conservatory!!!
Now , to me that's a canny commute, that adds almost 2 hrs onto your work day, plus the pollution involved in travelling.
so maybe that compares very favorably with my new build 4 bed 2 bath that was 1600 sq ft and had a nature reserve and lots of parks surrounding it. Funny Eoin never mentioned that, just the lack of public transport! 17295 SW Dolin Ct, Beaverton, OR 97006 MLS# 11622182 - Zillow
While having an acre to garden has its charms (particularly for those of us who want to garden, rather than drive around our bluegrass domain in a riding lawnmower spewing smoke!), so does city life - the 5,000 sq. ft. typical Portland eastside lot would be plenty big enough unless I really want to farm, an activity best done outside the city.
Oh- you see we're in the South where land is much chepaer! It is possible to get half an acre close to a small town, or even 30 mis from Charlotte and well affordable. We only have 1/3 acre lawn- rest is borders, veg garden and lots of natural woodland. I figure we have a round 300 trees.
We use a self-propelled gas mower-refuse to buy a sit on-so lazy.
We are walking distance to a few restaurants and a decent size grocery, hardware store etc (well about a 20 min walk-so most here don't bother actually) Gas station has basic provisions and that's 10 mins walk. The best collection of shops, dining, kids stuff entertainment (and Caribou coffee!) is about 3 miles away.
Yes, I could live in the city too, but not while I have kids.
Eoins main point seems to be public transport, but surely that's not a reason to move somewhere?
He also states that healthcare is free-which it's not.
Other things you need to think about are council taxes, heating costs and the salary you can expect.
Shoppers are paying up to 58 per cent more for basic grocery items than they were three years ago, according to figures published today.
The price of tea has shot up by 30 per cent while the cost of staple foods such as bread and eggs have risen by 18 per cent since 2007.
But the biggest increase has been in the price of rice and pulses such as lentils or beans, which have risen by 58 per cent.
Anyway- why don't you show us which houses in Portland or Glasgow would suit you?
About time you did some work here !
Last edited by Whatsthenews; 09-12-2011 at 10:32 AM..
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