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Old 07-13-2012, 05:02 PM
 
4,778 posts, read 2,816,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
I didnt think or know that the New Zealanders were like this.. what a shame you were treated this way...

it wasnt a new zealander who made my life hell , i was working in new zealand at the time , the person who wrecked the opportunitys i had over there was a sectarian bigot from the scottish borders

the kiwis were useless in dealing with the problem as i suspect they value scots way ahead of irish people , the majority of kiwis are of scottish ancestry where as only a tiny percentage are of irish stock
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
3,577 posts, read 4,039,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
it wasnt a new zealander who made my life hell , i was working in new zealand at the time , the person who wrecked the opportunitys i had over there was a sectarian bigot from the scottish borders

the kiwis were useless in dealing with the problem as i suspect they value scots way ahead of irish people , the majority of kiwis are of scottish ancestry where as only a tiny percentage are of irish stock

I don't think New Zealanders really care about one over the other. I spent some time living in New Zeakand and would say they couldn't care less about either.. or the English!
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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I didnt think they would either Ian... what I was always told about the Irish was how hard workers they were. as when they were navvies on our rivers they never stopped for a break, or as the stories go.. my mother however born here in Scotland didnt like the fact she was from Irish.. this I didnt understand at all, as my grandparents were lovely people...
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
14,348 posts, read 7,853,330 times
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Scots tend to have poorer diets and lifestyles than their English counterparts. Okay, sounds like a massive generalisation, but it's somewhat true.
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
I don't think New Zealanders really care about one over the other. I spent some time living in New Zeakand and would say they couldn't care less about either.. or the English!

the south island is a south pacific version of scotland , almost everyone i met there told me they had family in scotland
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the south island is a south pacific version of scotland , almost everyone i met there told me they had family in scotland

Really? That's not my experience. Queenstown is actually pretty cosmopolitan. Scotland is very beautiful but not quite to the level of the south island!
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Dzielnica III Nowy Świat
370 posts, read 402,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
There was a recent article in The New Republic, an American magazine, which claimed some Glasgow neighborhoods have lower life expectancies than Bangladesh! What neighborhoods could they be referring to?
Some parts of East Glasgow. Paisley is another black spot. Milngavie on the other hand has a higher life expectancy than Japan or Andorra.

You may blame Mrs. Thatcher for her destructive policies concerning the labour market, getting rid of UK industry and replacing it with financial jobs in the City of London, and locally this has been made worse by decades of mismanagement by Labour party officials who have traditionally induldged in corruption and nepotism, and due to the policies of Thatcher they have been secure of re-election in Strathclyde ever since. Even in 2012, when the SNP made a landslide victory in the whole of Scotland, Labour stayed more or less in charge of Glasgow.

This is sad, because if they would've reformed in the 80's - and those reforms were needed, just the way Thatcher did it was totally outrageous - and those reforms had gone hand in hand with sizeable investments in infrastructure, education and tax breaks for modern industries to set up shop in Northern England and Scotland, the outcome would've been totally different. Instead, Thatcher decided in her quest to make London the financial capital of the world, to royally screw everything north of Birmingham, which in turn paved the way for a completely inept and incompetent Labour takeover of Scotland and Northern England, who figured it's better for their political career to keep all these unemployed people on the dole, while focussing on megaprojects to show off to the outside world, without paying more than mere lip service to the underlying social problems. As a result, there is a second, and probably already a third, generation growing up with no prospects in life whose best skills are how to get more money from the benefits agency. (Or jobcentre+ as it is called now)

Maybe an independent Scotland will be able to resolve these issues, as it will break the Thatcher legacy. Hopefully, an independent Scotland will do this with a very limited amount of power for both the Tories and Labour, whose role can be better filled by the LibDems and SNP. Unfortunately, this might work for Glasgow, but it won't improve the situation in places like Liverpool, Leeds or Bradford which have suffered equally as bad.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
2,667 posts, read 2,262,357 times
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Thatcher was a truly evil woman and her legacy still lives on to this day.

I often wonder if Scotland would have been better off independent from day one. Too much of the UK's economy is focussed on London, at the expense of other parts of the country that have not seen the same level of investment as London and the south east.

Instead of banishing class division, the Thatcher years strengthened it and Americanised the UK in some respects. Scotland and northern England have both suffered as a result.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Thatcher tried out the Poll Tax on the Scottish in 88, shame on her, why were we , a poorer nation used in her experiment that didnt work but left many families destitute and poorer.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:45 AM
 
10,522 posts, read 7,208,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
Some parts of East Glasgow. Paisley is another black spot. Milngavie on the other hand has a higher life expectancy than Japan or Andorra.

You may blame Mrs. Thatcher for her destructive policies concerning the labour market, getting rid of UK industry and replacing it with financial jobs in the City of London, and locally this has been made worse by decades of mismanagement by Labour party officials who have traditionally induldged in corruption and nepotism, and due to the policies of Thatcher they have been secure of re-election in Strathclyde ever since. Even in 2012, when the SNP made a landslide victory in the whole of Scotland, Labour stayed more or less in charge of Glasgow.

This is sad, because if they would've reformed in the 80's - and those reforms were needed, just the way Thatcher did it was totally outrageous - and those reforms had gone hand in hand with sizeable investments in infrastructure, education and tax breaks for modern industries to set up shop in Northern England and Scotland, the outcome would've been totally different. Instead, Thatcher decided in her quest to make London the financial capital of the world, to royally screw everything north of Birmingham, which in turn paved the way for a completely inept and incompetent Labour takeover of Scotland and Northern England, who figured it's better for their political career to keep all these unemployed people on the dole, while focussing on megaprojects to show off to the outside world, without paying more than mere lip service to the underlying social problems. As a result, there is a second, and probably already a third, generation growing up with no prospects in life whose best skills are how to get more money from the benefits agency. (Or jobcentre+ as it is called now)

Maybe an independent Scotland will be able to resolve these issues, as it will break the Thatcher legacy. Hopefully, an independent Scotland will do this with a very limited amount of power for both the Tories and Labour, whose role can be better filled by the LibDems and SNP. Unfortunately, this might work for Glasgow, but it won't improve the situation in places like Liverpool, Leeds or Bradford which have suffered equally as bad.
As a factual matter, Glasgow's primary industries .... heavy engineering and shipbuilding ... were largely gone by the end of the 1970s and before Thatcher came to power. UCS failed in 1971, 8 years before Thatcher. What is left is primarily naval shipbuilding and that may well go too if Scotland gets independence and there isn't a navy to build for.

The Labour Party have controlled Glasgow for most of the 20th century and certainly well before Thatcher. I agree with your comments on the Labour Party but I don't think we can blame Thatcher for their success.

It is fashionable to blame Thatcher for everything. But, since 1960, Labour have been in government for around 25 years - half of the time - and they have done nothing for Scotland either. Frankly, the continual blaming of Thatcher for all our ills is something of a cop-out.

Tis is not a defence of Margaret Thatcher. But sometimes we need to put things into perspective. The Thatcher years were not a success but neither were the previous or subsequent years.
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