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Location: Kowaniec, Nowy Targ, Podhale. 666 m n.p.m.
355 posts, read 977,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001
As a factual matter, Glasgow's primary industries .... heavy engineering and shipbuilding ... were largely gone by the end of the 1970s and before Thatcher came to power. UCS failed in 1971, 8 years before Thatcher. What is left is primarily naval shipbuilding and that may well go too if Scotland gets independence and there isn't a navy to build for.
The Labour Party have controlled Glasgow for most of the 20th century and certainly well before Thatcher. I agree with your comments on the Labour Party but I don't think we can blame Thatcher for their success.
It is fashionable to blame Thatcher for everything. But, since 1960, Labour have been in government for around 25 years - half of the time - and they have done nothing for Scotland either. Frankly, the continual blaming of Thatcher for all our ills is something of a cop-out.
Tis is not a defence of Margaret Thatcher. But sometimes we need to put things into perspective. The Thatcher years were not a success but neither were the previous or subsequent years.
I agree it's not solely Thatcher's fault that everything went to **** in Scotland, I never said that in my post. In my opinion it's the combination of greedy Tory politics and incompetent Labour politics that led to this. That's why I think that taking both the Tories as well as Labour out of the equation for at least a decade or two might be a good thing.
About Scots independence, I'd like to see Scotland orient itself more towards the Nordics and less towards London. London to me is an example of unfettered greed and divide and rule politics. I personally think that Scotland might be too small to be totally on itself, which is why cooperation with other states would be necessary. Sure there are strong cultural ties with England and Ireland, and sure these ties should not be cut off, but for the Scots economy, strengthening the ties with Norway, Denmark and Iceland might be far more beneficial in the long run. These are small countries with a similar population density, similar geography and similar natural resources, and more importantly, much lower levels of poverty and deprivation due to sound economical policies where the Scots can learn a lot from.
Really? That's not my experience. Queenstown is actually pretty cosmopolitan. Scotland is very beautiful but not quite to the level of the south island!
oh i agree , i dont think ive ever seen such natural beauty as i witnesed in new zealand
I don't think New Zealanders really care about one over the other. I spent some time living in New Zeakand and would say they couldn't care less about either.. or the English!
I agree. Despite the obvious historical connections, and a steady flow of immigrants. People ( in general)in NZ don't really have much interest, and even less knowledge of the UK and Ireland (imo), and their histories.
I agree. Despite the obvious historical connections, and a steady flow of immigrants. People ( in general)in NZ don't really have much interest, and even less knowledge of the UK and Ireland (imo), and their histories.
if that were true , support for the monarchy would not be so high in new zealand , new zealand does and always has looked to britain
if that were true , support for the monarchy would not be so high in new zealand , new zealand does and always has looked to britain
Who says support for the monarchy is high ? I thought indifference would be the prevailing attitude. There are some republic types on one end and monarchists on the other end, but most people think very little either way. NZ doesn't look to The UK now to any great degree. Australia and the US would be more influential Once it did, but those days are gone.
Does Glasgow have a worse problem with poverty than other UK cities?.
I agree. Despite the obvious historical connections, and a steady flow of immigrants. People ( in general)in NZ don't really have much interest, and even less knowledge of the UK and Ireland (imo), and their histories.
That's a shame, are Kiwis as ignorant as Americans then when it comes to history? (oh dear here I go again generalising! )
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 07-14-2012 at 07:10 PM..
Who says support for the monarchy is high ? I thought indifference would be the prevailing attitude. There are some republic types on one end and monarchists on the other end, but most people think very little either way. NZ doesn't look to The UK now to any great degree. Australia and the US would be more influential Once it did, but those days are gone.
Does Glasgow have a worse problem with poverty than other UK cities?.
Tricky question - cities like Manchester and Birmingham have very small local authorities that only cover inner areas and not the suburbs, so poverty appears higher than what it actually is. Manchester probably has overall higher poverty in % terms.
I agree it's not solely Thatcher's fault that everything went to **** in Scotland, I never said that in my post. In my opinion it's the combination of greedy Tory politics and incompetent Labour politics that led to this. That's why I think that taking both the Tories as well as Labour out of the equation for at least a decade or two might be a good thing.
About Scots independence, I'd like to see Scotland orient itself more towards the Nordics and less towards London. London to me is an example of unfettered greed and divide and rule politics. I personally think that Scotland might be too small to be totally on itself, which is why cooperation with other states would be necessary. Sure there are strong cultural ties with England and Ireland, and sure these ties should not be cut off, but for the Scots economy, strengthening the ties with Norway, Denmark and Iceland might be far more beneficial in the long run. These are small countries with a similar population density, similar geography and similar natural resources, and more importantly, much lower levels of poverty and deprivation due to sound economical policies where the Scots can learn a lot from.
Both parties have generally been bad for Scotland. While Margaret Thatcher is not solely to blame, her government at the time did kick-start a new wave of selfish consumerism, a "me first" mentality, while deregulating and selling off state assets as if they were flogging used mobile phones on Ebay. Her attempt to impose US style capitalism on the United Kingdom was an epic fail, IMO and the youth of Britain today and the riots of last year are chilling bi-products of 30 years of poor leadership.
I agree that I would love to see an independent Scotland look towards the Nordic countries for both social and economic models. Of course, this will not happen over night and may be a tough pill to swallow for many years due to potentially higher rates of taxation for top earners, but in the long run, I believe that Scotland can pull it off and may eventually morph into a country not too dissimilar from Norway, Denmark or Sweden.
Who says support for the monarchy is high ? I thought indifference would be the prevailing attitude. There are some republic types on one end and monarchists on the other end, but most people think very little either way. NZ doesn't look to The UK now to any great degree. Australia and the US would be more influential Once it did, but those days are gone.
Does Glasgow have a worse problem with poverty than other UK cities?.
No offence to you personally, but I really don't get this anti-UK stuff from new world countries, especially from Australia and New Zealand. What the hell did we do to you to deserve this "distancing", as if most British people give a rat's arse about the long-gone empire and are somehow clinging on to former colonies?
If you want no part of the UK, just ditch the monarchy and become a republic....it's really that simple. Personally, I would almost rather keep the monarchy now as I would not want the UK to look to the US for influence any more than it has done already (which is far too much, IMO).
Both parties have generally been bad for Scotland. While Margaret Thatcher is not solely to blame, her government at the time did kick-start a new wave of selfish consumerism, a "me first" mentality, while deregulating and selling off state assets as if they were flogging used mobile phones on Ebay. Her attempt to impose US style capitalism on the United Kingdom was an epic fail, IMO and the youth of Britain today and the riots of last year are chilling bi-products of 30 years of poor leadership.
I agree that I would love to see an independent Scotland look towards the Nordic countries for both social and economic models. Of course, this will not happen over night and may be a tough pill to swallow for many years due to potentially higher rates of taxation for top earners, but in the long run, I believe that Scotland can pull it off and may eventually morph into a country not too dissimilar from Norway, Denmark or Sweden.
Scotland cannot emulate what Norway, Denmark and Sweden have. This is why I think Scottish independence will ultimately fail because they base their entire arguments on 'oil and Norway'*. That ain't gonna happen. If you remove the Scots from Scotland, maybe it can happen, considering the poor life style choices of individual Scots is what makes Scotland look poor and unhealthy on paper (yes, yes, I know not everyone in Scotland has an unhealthy lifestyle, but many do). Maybe Scotland can transform itself into an Alaska instead.
And, I would personally ignore all of Prottera's post, because he is firmly anti-English so cannot give an unbiased opinion on anything.
*also blaming Westminster for all their problems, which is pathetic.
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In my opinion it's the combination of greedy Tory politics and incompetent Labour politics that led to this. That's why I think that taking both the Tories as well as Labour out of the equation for at least a decade or two might be a good thing. 
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