Celebrating the NHS (sales, buying, tax)

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by cittic10

Hi! Another jealous American here.
Except I'm not going to diss the NHS. Instead I'm going to celebrate it with my neighbors across the pond. I'm so happy for you. And the fact that you celebrate it and don't take it for granted, well that also says a lot. Congratulations I truly am glad at least one county's got it figured out. You take care of your people.

I have a worthless so called health insurance policy from a greedy for profit corporation that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If I ever need to make a claim, it gets denied. Every f***** bill that gets submitted to them gets denied for some bogus coding error. It's a joke. A large portion of the money goes to lobbiests to bribe our elected representatives to keep the status quo. It's like making a political contribution every time I pay the bill.

I literally have to call up my health denial company just as soon as I get typing this reply and argue with them over a huge rate increase. I'll have to switch to a plan that has even less supposed coverage where I'm paying most of the bills anyway.
Our hospitals and the cartels are in bed with one another. They've got it totally rigged.

If I ever need care, I'm on the next flight out to mexico or somewhere because the worthless insurance policy isn't going to pay it anyway.

New legislation is going to require we pay these shysters. Yay. There's a special place in hell for everyone in the health insurance industry.

Too bad Austrailia isn't paying attention while their system is gradually being privatized.

Another jealous American here, I want to join you in congratulating the British on the NHS, it was so awesome seeing them celebrate it in the Olympic opening ceremony. I am so sick of the moronic media here in the US giving us all these numbers showing how much British, French, Canadians, etc. supposedly hate their own systems and are coming to the US for "better" care. I know that is bogus.

These idiot politicians here try to tell us we couldn't afford universal care- that it would cost trillions of dollars per year, bankrupting the country and so that kind of coverage is a pipe dream. I say that is crap, they really need to look to Great Britain to see how they do it- how it's made a priority that people are more than willing to pay for. Oh, and it would go a long ways towards making this happen if we could funnel all of that wasted money on our worldwide military empire into healthcare- but nobody would allow that, it shows where our misguided priorities are.

Anyway, congrats- and please do not ever let your politicians try to privatize any part of your NHS- once the door is open just a bit it will be impossible to close, and all you have to do is look across the pond to see what kind of mess you'd get yourselves into.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by cittic10

Hi! Another jealous American here.
Except I'm not going to diss the NHS. Instead I'm going to celebrate it with my neighbors across the pond. I'm so happy for you. And the fact that you celebrate it and don't take it for granted, well that also says a lot. Congratulations I truly am glad at least one county's got it figured out. You take care of your people.

I have a worthless so called health insurance policy from a greedy for profit corporation that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If I ever need to make a claim, it gets denied. Every f***** bill that gets submitted to them gets denied for some bogus coding error. It's a joke. A large portion of the money goes to lobbiests to bribe our elected representatives to keep the status quo. It's like making a political contribution every time I pay the bill.

I literally have to call up my health denial company just as soon as I get typing this reply and argue with them over a huge rate increase. I'll have to switch to a plan that has even less supposed coverage where I'm paying most of the bills anyway.
Our hospitals and the cartels are in bed with one another. They've got it totally rigged.

If I ever need care, I'm on the next flight out to mexico or somewhere because the worthless insurance policy isn't going to pay it anyway.

New legislation is going to require we pay these shysters. Yay. There's a special place in hell for everyone in the health insurance industry.

Too bad Austrailia isn't paying attention while their system is gradually being privatized.

The NHS doesn't cover everything either. In some areas you can wait months to see a specialist and if the treatment you want isn't offered by your NHS trust and/or isn't on the BNF, you can forget about it.

Also some of the OTC drugs you take for granted here aren't available there. Tylenol and AZO Standard leap to mind; better hope you don't get a urinary tract infection.

I'm a fan of the NHS but I've actually experienced it, and it it does have its down sides.

[cittic10]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Also some of the OTC drugs you take for granted here aren't available there. Tylenol and AZO Standard leap to mind; better hope you don't get a urinary tract infection.

Tylenol is a brand name. In the UK, it is known as paracetamol and most definitely sold OTC

AZO standard??? Do you mean this?... AZO Standard UTI Treatment - 12 Count: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Beauty

My guess is if you cannot find a particular drug or equivalent in the UK there is probably a good reason for it.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

You can't just move to the UK and expect the NHS to foot the bill for your medical care, it doesn't work that way. If you're on a tourist visa and get sick or become injured, yes, the NHS will care for you but it will also bill you and/or your insurance company. I know someone who works in claims for a major U.S. insurer and he regularly pays claims filed by the NHS.

There's also the prickly matter of a visa. Unless you have family ties to the UK (i.e. are married to or are the minor child of a British subject) or are transferred there by your employer, it's difficult to get a visa there.

As for nursing degrees being free in Scotland, have you seen what a nurse makes on the NHS vs what they make here in the US? Nurses in the UK don't make squat compared to their US counterparts.

It used to be easier to establish citizenship in the UK. So many people were taking advantage that they rightfully made it more difficult. Sure, everyone should have medical treatment but you'll go broke trying to heal the ill of the world. There have to be limits.

Concerning the nursing degree, I was thinking of such a person having a child get the degree in Scotland and returning to the states for a better income. There was a time in which many UK IT professionals were emigrating to the US for better salaries. I think doctors, too. Before Thatcher, I think.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by Judge_Smails

Having experience with the health systems in the US, UK and Finland, let me shout a vote in favour of the NHS. While I would rate Finland's health care system better in terms of facilities and access, I never found the NHS to be lacking in terms of quality or timeliness of care. And admittedly, Finnish nurses are better looking - but maybe Scotslass would share a picture and prove me wrong...?

Meanwhile in the US, I enjoyed a $5000 dental procedure because my employer chose to change insurers.

I'd take the Commie Finnish or British health care systems any day, thank you very much.

It's hard to judge, of course, but in the states the competence of physicians can vary a great deal. US medical students go all over the world for training. A doctor (usually) has to have privileges in a hospital and the top notch teaching hospitals vet a doctor very carefully before accepting his affiliation. So, to get a good doctor I call a great hospital or visit their website and choose accordingly.

Are all doctors in the NHS given a similarly high standard of training? I ask this because people in the UK seem to be confident, on the whole, in the quality of their medical treatment.

I had a situation, once, in which there was a condition (set of symptoms) that sent me independently to several different specialists. Each had a 'solution' but none could ensure that it would really stop the symptoms. I then went to a holistic doctor who tested me for food sensitivities and in two weeks, following a restricted diet, I was better. If I had followed some of the earlier advice I would have undergone operations.

At the time, years back, most doctors on the whole did not think too highly of the holistic movement. That seems to have changed among the better doctors.

I have heard that some doctors in Germany have knowledge of herbs and alternate(like magnetic) therapy and often attempt these before going to more invasive means. Is this at all true in the UK?

[Judge_Smails]

Originally Posted by WIHS2006

Population of Finland - 5,410,233
Population of the United States - 300,000,0000
If you can't see the obvious then I feel really bad for you.

Finland doesent have 12% of it's population living 5 generations on welfare.

Long Island alone has more people than all of Finland.

What exactly are you getting at here?

The US, with it's large population, would actually have huge advantages of scale over Finland - which should reduce the cost of care per patient. Meanwhile, Finland's smaller and less densely concentrated population means a higher cost of maintaining healthcare infrastructure that's accessible over greater distances.

Yet somehow Finland manages a high standard of care with comparable outcomes to the US, at a much lower cost.

If you can't understand that then I really feel bad for you.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by cittic10

Tylenol is a brand name. In the UK, it is known as paracetamol and most definitely sold OTC

I was told by a chemist that they were "chemically the same" but that they were not quite the same, and that Tylenol wasn't available in the UK because of some chemical difference. Not being a chemist, I wouldn't know exactly what that is. Also, my ex-husband was allergic to aspirin and ibuprofen and claimed that paracetamol was effective for him but Tylenol was not. Take that however you like.

AZO standard??? Do you mean this?... AZO Standard UTI Treatment - 12 Count: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Beauty

My guess is if you cannot find a particular drug or equivalent in the UK there is probably a good reason for it.

Yes, I mean that; if you read the entry and the comments you'll see that it's not actually available over the counter in the UK. 9.44 for 12 pills is outrageous; it's sold for a fraction of that price here.

I was told by a consultant urologist in the UK that AZO Standard (and its generic equivalents) are not available there due to "concern over liver damage", yet they sell paracetamol and ibuprofen by the 30-dose box. If you take all 30 pills, you'll probably die...and it'll be a slow, painful death. But no, let's ban a drug that instead provides relief from urinary tract infections, MIGHT cause liver damage if used in the long term, and turns your urine orange. Can't have that, but let's go ahead and sell paracetamol jazzed up with codeine over the counter. But you have to get the chemist to hand you a bottle of hydrogen peroxide or isopropyl alcohol.

Makes sense to me!

[Scotslass]

Are all doctors in the NHS given a similarly high standard of training? I ask this because people in the UK seem to be confident, on the whole, in the quality of their medical treatment.

No, our doctors go to medical schools for their training not Disney Land.

Let´s put it this way, the UK doesn´t have some of the worlds top medical schools such as Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial college for nothing and many of the doctors that I worked with in the NHS also worked between private clinics/hospitals.

It is all the same training regardless of who you work for. Of course there are many foreign doctors especially where I worked (Indian, American, Canadian)

[George & Bill]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

lol! Thanks. I'm relieved at the response - except it would be nice to have free medical training.

Originally Posted by WIHS2006

Population of Finland - 5,410,233
Population of the United States - 300,000,0000
If you can't see the obvious then I feel really bad for you.

Finland doesent have 12% of it's population living 5 generations on welfare.

Long Island alone has more people than all of Finland.

The above seems to imply you think the United States has the same money to spend on healthcare as Finland, bit spread over 80 times the population

Actually, the US has a higher GDP per capita than Finland.

Universal healthcare also helps people to come off welfare because they don't have to worry about losing welfare-related health benefits.

[Baldrick]

Originally Posted by George & Bill

The above seems to imply you think the United States has the same money to spend on healthcare as Finland, bit spread over 80 times the population

Actually, the US has a higher GDP per capita than Finland.

Universal healthcare also helps people to come off welfare because they don't have to worry about losing welfare-related health benefits.

What impressed me with WIHS2006's information was that Finland knows exactly how big it's population is (5,410,233) whereas the US (gu)estimates in the Millions (300,000,000).

Must make budgeting a little awkward if nothing else..