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Maybe Prince Harry will marry a black woman and us Americans will be able to psychoanalyze the British response to that event! (He's just the chap to pull that off and I would be cheering him along!)
By the way, the other day, my mixed race American daughter was told by a shop keeper in Harrogate that (and I quote) she was "very pretty for a coloured girl."
Just sayin'.
I found some interesting statistics just this morning. The unemployment rate for black males in the UK is over 50 percent. The unemployment rate for black males in the US is around 14 percent. Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm...."
Race and ethnic identity are complex issues, and I have a lot of respect, appreciation, and admiration for many things British, and can't wait to visit the UK later this year! But people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224
I think more information is needed, before blanket assumptions are made. For example, in the U.S., the majority of people out of work mostly include high school drop-outs, those without college degrees, and people lacking work experience or a valued skill-set. I imagine that the same is true in other Western nations.
Unfortunately, a large number of black men tend to forego completing high school and college. Since we live in an information driven society, it may be more difficult for them to find gainful employment if they do not possess the skills that employers want, and/or are not inclined to create self employment/entrepreneurial ventures for themselves. This is not really race based; it's more or less class based. Black men with skills, valuable work experience, and an education do not seem to have any problems securing great jobs and career opportunities, in the U.S. and abroad.
Well thankyou Lilly!
I must say I am getting more than a little bit tired of being constantly accused of being self-righteous.
Getting back to the original question 'Is President Obama viewed as mixed race or black American in the UK?' The question was about perception of colour. I have lived in the UK for 44 years and have witnessed myself the changes in attitudes towards race. I answered the question honestly and was polite and courteous - I was not casting stones I was telling it as I see it. If you ever get to visit the UK I like to think you will see it for yourself. I now live in the US and I can see that there is a difference here. What I see as honesty you are choosing to see as self-righteousness. What do you want me to do - lie?
By the way Kathryn, you might want to read through your own articles as the statistics you gave were not even comparing like with like.
Your guardian article was talking specifically about black youths (16-24) not all black males, and goes on to say that the figures don't include students and that the Department for Work and Pensions stressed the overall proportion of young black people who are unemployed in the UK was 22%.
Whereas your other article quoting figures from the US puts black youths between 16 and 19 years-of-age unemployment at 36.5 %.
Perception of colour is one thing, equality is something else and there is no doubt that there is a lot of catching up to do here in the US and the UK alike. I'm not arguing with that. Lilly has it right - much of it is socio-economic and has to do with education and acquisition of skills. Lilly I think you have taken on board what I said. Thank you for that.
I don't believe that most African Americans are mixed. I am basing this on the complexion of many blacks. The majority of African Americans are actually dark in complexion. Many however, believe that most blacks are mixed, because they tend to view mainstream media images as normative. Since the majority of those chosen to represent blacks on TV and in the movies are actually mixed race, many falsely believe that most black Americans are like these people, but nothing could be further from the truth.
As a black American woman, I find it insulting that women such as Halle Berry, Rashida Jones, Thandie Newton, and many other mixed race actresses are selected to represent black women. Again, I think it's destructive because ultimately it debases the meaning of black.
These actresses would never be selected to represent white beauty, why the heck are they put out there to represent black beauty?
I thought the exact opposite growing up, I never could understand why the media always only showed 1 side of black people, the ones who are darker and never showed the blacks who came in other hues like I was used to seeing growing up. The ones you mentioned looks like regular unmixed blacks to me. Look at Raven Symone who is not of mixed race and how light she was when she first started on The Coaby Show when she was 3 yrs old and now today she has gotten browner and looks lik a regular black American to me.
I must say I am getting more than a little bit tired of being constantly accused of being self-righteous.
Getting back to the original question 'Is President Obama viewed as mixed race or black American in the UK?' The question was about perception of colour. I have lived in the UK for 44 years and have witnessed myself the changes in attitudes towards race. I answered the question honestly and was polite and courteous - I was not casting stones I was telling it as I see it. If you ever get to visit the UK I like to think you will see it for yourself. I now live in the US and I can see that there is a difference here. What I see as honesty you are choosing to see as self-righteousness. What do you want me to do - lie?
By the way Kathryn, you might want to read through your own articles as the statistics you gave were not even comparing like with like.
Your guardian article was talking specifically about black youths (16-24) not all black males, and goes on to say that the figures don't include students and that the Department for Work and Pensions stressed the overall proportion of young black people who are unemployed in the UK was 22%.
Whereas your other article quoting figures from the US puts black youths between 16 and 19 years-of-age unemployment at 36.5 %.
Perception of colour is one thing, equality is something else and there is no doubt that there is a lot of catching up to do here in the US and the UK alike. I'm not arguing with that. Lilly has it right - much of it is socio-economic and has to do with education and acquisition of skills. Lilly I think you have taken on board what I said. Thank you for that.
Well, this is pretty much basic knowledge and common sense. Those who have employable skill sets will usually be hired, because in an information driven market place, he or she who has the best ideas or those who are able to implement a plan of action are desirable. Usually, smart people have the ability to create their own career/employment prospects, they don't sit around waiting for a job from an employer. This is true for skilled people of all colors, especially in the West.
FYI: I have been to France and Switzerland, but never to the UK. I plan to visit this summer, after my vacation in Aruba.
I think Brits actually have a better race relations track, because it doesn't appear that black Brits really focus on race or believe that it's a hindrance to their overall progression. In contrast, a number of black Americans believe that race is still a major hindrance in the U.S. Also, the races seem to interact far more in the UK, but I could be wrong, since I am basing this on my limited interactions with black and white Brits.
It depends I'm not sure that anyone can really ordain the UK as an enlightened beacon of virtue in terms of racial equality. Especially in terms of progression in the political establishment. Only the other day a spokesperson for a supposedly 'progressive' political party (the Liberal Democrats) was on television feebly trying to use the excuse of having to fight hard for borderline seats as the reason why black and Asian candidates are never used as anything more than cannon fodder in seats they have no chance of winning. The Liberal Democrats do not have a single MP (or MEP for that matter) from a black or Asian background.
Put it this way the UK in some ways has actually gone backwards in social mobility in the political and media establishment in the past 10 years and if you were to walk into any boardroom in the City of London, any newspaper office or the halls of Westminster you would see a similar demographic of Oxbridge and Cambridge educated cliques who are overwhelmingly white and who were also overwhelmingly educated at the same schools.
America has a mixed race President and though I have little time for the main political parties in America or the UK right now I have to say it's a little rich for the UK to be condescending towards the US in terms of race relations when a non-white Prime Minister (of any ethnicity) is still a very, very, very long way off. Britain doesn't obsess about race, not openly at least but when it comes to putting non-white candidates up for election in the middle-England shires Forget it
Britain may not wear its prejudices on its sleeve and London has to be one of the most relaxed and integrated cities in the world when it comes to genuine ambivalence to racial integration but nevertheless those prejudices are there when you scrape the surface and the same issues are there whether people care to admit it or not.
All the top jobs and positions in UK society are taken up from a very small demographic of people who happen to be nearly all white and happen to be from pretty much the same social backgrounds too. The annihilation of the labour movement in the UK has also limited the amount of nationally educated politicians coming through.
Britain is still a place where status and class matters even if race isn't supposed to. And as the majority of wealthy people in the best jobs are white and a black candidate for Prime Minister is still another generation away then obviously inclusiveness in terms of genuine acceptability for black candidates in certain sectors of British society is still an issue too.
I don't doubt that the UK may (at least on the surface) be more relaxed about issues surrounding race but whilst it may be a less race obsessed society (again on the surface in some parts of the UK but very much so in London) in some ways it is also lagging behind America in terms of inclusiveness and openness about these issues.
In some ways Britain is still very reluctant to institutional change. Ask anyone about a referendum on the monarchy and like Dimblebey on Question Time the other night most people in the media establishment will guffaw as if you've just sat on a whoopee cushion. Britain is still very archaic in the way Lords have elected privilege through right of birth rather than ability and in that respect the UK has a rather peculiar deference to 'born to rule' virtue that America doesn't have to the same pre-ordained extent.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 02-01-2013 at 12:31 PM..
I'm a black American and I find it strange that so many people continue to call President Obama black. Black, by definition means two black parents. Since Obama's mom was white American and not African/black, he is certainly not black (despite resembling the phenotype of many black American men).
Do people in the UK view Obama as mixed race, or do they view him as black American? Inquiring minds want to know...
In the USA, most Blacks that are mixed with White, consider themselves to be Black, and totally refute their White ancestry. Obama, Halley Berry, Mariah Carey. This is the way they seem to want it....
In the USA, most Blacks that are mixed with White, consider themselves to be Black, and totally refute their White ancestry. Obama, Halley Berry, Mariah Carey. This is the way they seem to want it....
I'm a black American and I find it strange that so many people continue to call President Obama black. Black, by definition means two black parents. Since Obama's mom was white American and not African/black, he is certainly not black (despite resembling the phenotype of many black American men).
Do people in the UK view Obama as mixed race, or do they view him as black American? Inquiring minds want to know...
I find it odd too. I'm white (male) and my kids are mixed black/white, and they know they're both races. They're 5 years old, but already comment on how their skin color is "inbetween black and white"
I suppose some people in the U.S. tend to refer to bi-racial people as "black" when they were raised more in the black culture. My own kids are being raised in a fairly racially diverse area, but it's also upper-middle class. We don't have relatives near us from either side of the family, so they're primarily influenced by our local culture. They're black grandmother says "they sound like white boys" lol!
All the top jobs and positions in UK society are taken up from a very small demographic of people who happen to be nearly all white and happen to be from pretty much the same social backgrounds too. The annihilation of the labour movement in the UK has also limited the amount of nationally educated politicians coming through.
Britain is still a place where status and class matters even if race isn't supposed to. And as the majority of wealthy people in the best jobs are white and a black candidate for Prime Minister is still another generation away then obviously inclusiveness in terms of genuine acceptability for black candidates in certain sectors of British society is still an issue too.
I don't doubt that the UK may (at least on the surface) be more relaxed about issues surrounding race but whilst it may be a less race obsessed society (again on the surface in some parts of the UK but very much so in London) in some ways it is also lagging behind America in terms of inclusiveness and openness about these issues.
I enjoyed reading your honest and detailed commentary on race relations in the UK. What many people don't realize is, the U.S. functions very similarly in terms of class/status. Virtually, all of our senators and supreme court justices are white, and the bulk of them have what is called "blue blood" ancestry. This is why the issue of race is somewhat salient, because Obama's white ancestry actually includes the "blue blood" lineage that is an unspoken requirement to serve as the U.S. president. Many people however, want to believe otherwise. They have no concept of reality. When I bring up the fact that Obama's mom was a PhD serving in various capacities for American NGO's and think-tanks, and that his Kenyan father obtained a PhD in economics from Harvard and later went on to become the top economic advisor in his country, people look rather amazed. It just doesn't fit in well with the "pull yourself up from poverty" story that so many people tend to relish in...
Researchers at the New England Historic Genealogical Society found some remarkable family connections...Obama has a prolific presidential lineage that features Democrats and Republicans. His distant cousins include President George W. Bush and his father, George H.W. Bush, Gerald Ford, Lyndon Johnson, Harry S. Truman and James Madison. Other Obama cousins include Vice President Dick Cheney, British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill and Civil War General Robert E. Lee.
It wasn't that long ago that it was discovered that President Obama was related to Vice President Dick Cheney. Late-night talk-show hosts had a field day in their monologues, and even the politicians joked about it...According to the Associated Press report, the site also is reporting that President George W. Bush is also related to Obama and Palin. The two presidents are 11th cousins through common ancestor Samuel Hinckley, Smith's father-in-law.
Obama and Bush are 11th cousins, both descended from Samuel Hinckley, who lived in Massachusetts in the 17th century. Meanwhile, Obama is also related — even more closely — to Dick Cheney. They are eighth cousins, both descended from a French Huguenot named Mareen Duvall who settled in Maryland in the 17th century.
Contrary to popular belief, Obama's election does not represent inclusiveness or diversity of thought nor actions. On the surface, it's fantastic to have a brown face in the White house with his lovely family, but when one digs beneath the surface, Obama's presidency is really just an extension of Bush and every other U.S. President, prior to Kennedy.
During his first term, Obama signed a bill that is in stark contrast to what Candidate Obama promised. Attached as a rider to a defense funding bill (called the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA)), the new law gave the U.S. military vast authority for the indefinite detention of anyone it deems a terrorism suspect without charge or trial. This includes U.S. citizens on U.S. soil! It declares the whole world as its battlefield and sets no time limit on its application. This appears to be a clear violation of the constitutional right of habeas corpus.
He campaigned on a promise of transparency, but in truth, his administration operates like a secret society. They tend to sign executive orders at the last hour.
In addition, Obama has also extended the Patriot Act without any changes until 2015 and has taken broad new authority to engage in warfare beyond Afghanistan. The most spurious of legal authority has been used to justify bombing campaigns in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Libya, with the huge increase in the use of Drone strikes.
Obama has also dramatically outdone Bush in expanded domestic spying provisions and has led one of the worst witch-hunts against whistleblowers in history! This unacceptable attack on human rights and civil liberties cannot be justified under the guise of fighting terrorism, because in actuality, many of his administration's policies actually breed terrorism. If the US government wanted to end the global reservoir of support or tolerance for terrorism, it would end the foreign policy practices that have inspired it, including propping up dictators that serve US interests, wars for oil as well as neoliberal trade policies that impoverish whole nations.
Those are the facts, but very few Americans want to listen. They prefer to discuss such trivial issues as Dems vs. Repubs or Obama Vs. Bush without realizing that they are one in the same.
Generally speaking, all people need to stop relying on politicians in Washington (or anywhere else for that matter) and work within their own respective communities to bring about true change.
Last edited by Lilly1224; 02-01-2013 at 01:58 PM..
They're black grandmother says "they sound like white boys" lol!
That's actually an insult, because essentially she's implying that proper grammar and diction equals whiteness.
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Forget it
