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I don't think kids should be "taught to be proud". I think they should receive an education and go from there. Being taught false patriotism has its critical thought boundaries IMO.
Agreed. History should be taught as history — what happened and differing perspectives. It should be taught as "here's why you should be proud to be American" or "here's why you should be proud to be British"* The passage from this book [very good book, worth reading if anyone's interested in American history] puts it well:
Textbooks are often muddled by the conflicting desires to promote inquiry and to indoctrinate blind patriotism... The titles themselves tell the story: The Great Republic, The American Way, Land of Promise, Rise the American Nation. Such titles differ from the titles of all other textbooks students read in high school or college. Chemistry books, for example, are called Chemistry or Principles of Chemistry, not Rise ofthe Molecule.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalLord
I'm an American in my mid 30s. I was a kid in the 80s in a suburb of Los Angeles. When I was a kid, let's say between 4 and 9 years old, in the mid 1980s or so, I thought that "the Indians" were the bad guys and that "the cowboys" were the good guys. I believed this as firmly and clearly as any 8 year old in 1955 would have. (One thing that may have contributed to this: on Saturday afternoon TV they often had a lot of the same shows and movies from that era, so I was very much exposed to the John Wayne mindset.) In fact, I assumed the Indians had all been killed by the end of the 19th century. I seriously thought the cowboys had killed them all and that they no longer existed. I remember being surprised when I found out that Native Americans still existed.
Hell, I remember being shocked to my core at age 13 when I found out that since I'm half Mexican I was probably around a quarter Mexican Indian (my mom's fairly dark, in fact), and that individuals in my great-grandparents' generation were full-blown "Indios" back in Mexico. I had always just assumed that every last Latin American person was 100% Spanish, including my mom's side of the family.
Then the 90s began, which was when I started junior high and high school. The next thing you know every other white kid, even the ones that were kinda racist, would go on and on about how they were 1/16th Chippewa or something. It was cool to be Indian all of a sudden. Although maybe it was cool among that age group back in the 70s as well, I don't know.
I know this is only obliquely relevant, but this thread reminded me of all that. Really weird to think back on it.
I sometimes find the old Cowboy and Indian movies a bit obnoxious for that reason, same with the glorification of America freedom built on the blood of Indians. At the same time, I know all nations are built on blood and colonisation is just part of human history. And I still have a fascination about America.
Are people from the UK made to feel almost guilty for even talking about it?
Oh yes, in my experience definitely yes. I've been called a colonist, an occupier, and a terrorist, and that's just in my own country. Some people (from other cultures) have VERY strong feelings about the British Empire, blaming it for everything from popularizing slavery to wrecking whole societies. At the same time they downplay the significance of the Empire and that it had any effect on them at all. I've met people who have been really upset by Britain's colonial past and history, and have begged to have the whole thing rewritten, so that all the racist and bloody parts are removed and we can forget all about it. I think it's a travesty: you can't change the past. But yes, it's extremely unpopular to be pro-Empire about anything, you are suspected of being a secret fascist if you are, as the rhetoric of those times was wildly different before we all got obsessed with inequality, liberalism, etc.
I'm not trying to toot the horn of some stupid right wing party. That's just how I see it. The Empire was the largest the world has ever seen, trying to scrub it out of history and tar the pioneers as evil racists isn't the whole story. That said it has no place in todays' world.
Considering the pretty awful condition of most former Spanish Colonies over here in our neck of the woods, I feel the same way my high school history teacher did on this. I'm very, very glad the US of today was created by the UK (13 Original Colonies) and not Spain. I've yet to meet an American that feels otherwise. I'd also say most Americans view the UK far more fondly than the other way round.
Like Tom, I grew up surrounded by the legacies of British rule. Long Island was the last remaining part of the original Thirteen Colonies to be 'evacuated' by the British in 1783 so one could say we were under British rule longer than any other part of the United States perhaps with the exception of some parts of Washington, Michigan, etc which may have belonged to British Canada.
British rule has had an enormous and lasting impact on the United States. Pretty much everything in our system of government, culture, language, etc is British in origin or a legacy of British rule.
Like many Americans I look upon the UK very fondly. I am glad our nations remain good friends despite the Revolution and the War of 1812. I would also like to see the US join the Commonwealth - it has included republics since the 1950s so there would be no need for us to bring back the monarchy.
Are you in the northeast? I am and there are remnants of British rule all around me--from Revolutionary War monuments to the USS Constitution to the annual re-enactment of "The Shot Heard Round the World" in Lexington to Plimouth (that's how they spell it) Plantation with the replica of the Mayflower and even the names of all of the towns around here being named after towns in England where the original settlers came from. In most towns around here you can find a street with several homes that were built when we were still ruled by the British; some are museums and others are still being lived in. Our New England towns feature white churches patterned after the design of Sir Christopher Wren and it's practically emblematic of a town, the plain white churches with the tall steeples. It's our heritage. You can't get away from it even if you wanted to.
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