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Old 05-20-2013, 03:34 PM
 
5,606 posts, read 3,510,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbjen View Post
If your issue is that the UK gets short changed by the EU, then electing UKIP is about the stupidest thing you could do. Having your country represented in talks about things like economic policy and border security by politicians who not only know nothing about the issues, but who also have a tactic of simply causing as much disruption as possible to the whole process, is not going to get you a better deal in the long run.

Of course the UK is not getting as much out of the EU as it should, because you have decided to have a bunch of people who have no interest in participating in the process represent you.

UKIP can not get the UK out of the EU, they can not stop all immigration, they can not do any of the things that people elect them to do. All these wasted votes could have elected someone who actually could have gone in and done more for the UK, instead of someone who says all the things people want to hear but who can not deliver.

Nigel Farage's main point, and it's a very good one, is that the British people have never had a vote on whether they wish to be a member of the EU.
The country merely voted in favour of of joining a common market.
No-one expects UKIP to win a single seat at the next general election but the party has and will continue to cause the Conservatives a massive headache.
And Cameron is a dead man walking tonight after reaching a deal with Labour to force through a gay marriage bill opposed by a large number of his own back-benchers - a bill that wasn't in the last manifesto or even in the last Queen's Speach to Parliament. I fear the Eton toff has completely lost the plot.
You might find this an illuminating article.

The relentless charm of Nigel Farage

 
Old 05-20-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,664 posts, read 8,241,815 times
Reputation: 2862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
Nigel Farage's main point, and it's a very good one, is that the British people have never had a vote on whether they wish to be a member of the EU.
The country merely voted in favour of of joining a common market.
No-one expects UKIP to win a single seat at the next general election but the party has and will continue to cause the Conservatives a massive headache.
And Cameron is a dead man walking tonight after reaching a deal with Labour to force through a gay marriage bill opposed by a large number of his own back-benchers - a bill that wasn't in the last manifesto or even in the last Queen's Speach to Parliament. I fear the Eton toff has completely lost the plot.
You might find this an illuminating article.

The relentless charm of Nigel Farage

Gay marriage (or equal rights as I like to call it) is supported by the vast majority of people in Britain. The Queens speech is written by the government so that point is moot.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 12:48 AM
 
5,606 posts, read 3,510,660 times
Reputation: 7414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
Gay marriage (or equal rights as I like to call it) is supported by the vast majority of people in Britain. The Queens speech is written by the government so that point is moot.
Opinion polls on gay marriage tend to vary depending on which question is asked but my point is that any PM who requires the support of the Opposition to force through a bill because a large number of his back-benchers have serious reservations about it is doomed.

And yes, the Queen's speech IS written by the Government outlining the legislation it proposes yet gay marriage was not included.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Next stop Antarctica
1,801 posts, read 2,924,396 times
Reputation: 2129
In Australia it is called keeping the bas..ds honest I suspect that is what UKIP is about.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:10 AM
 
5,606 posts, read 3,510,660 times
Reputation: 7414
Quote:
Originally Posted by cushla View Post
In Australia it is called keeping the bas..ds honest I suspect that is what UKIP is about.

Yup, UKIP have picked up on two main policies that they know will bring them huge numbers of votes.

Europe - both Labour and the Tories have promised a referendum and UKIP say let's have it now.

Immigration - UKIP merely proposes immigration controls that many other countries such as the USA and Australia have been practising for decades.It's not a racist thing, simply a conviction held by many,many British people that enough is enough.

UKIP have got both the main parties running scared and it's about time too.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,664 posts, read 8,241,815 times
Reputation: 2862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
Yup, UKIP have picked up on two main policies that they know will bring them huge numbers of votes.

Europe - both Labour and the Tories have promised a referendum and UKIP say let's have it now.

Immigration - UKIP merely proposes immigration controls that many other countries such as the USA and Australia have been practising for decades.It's not a racist thing, simply a conviction held by many,many British people that enough is enough.

UKIP have got both the main parties running scared and it's about time too.

America's immigration laws are a disaster - it's one if the things being debated, and hopefully overhauled soon. Farage uses simple fear and basic political tactics to get his profile raised. Leaving the EU would be a disastrous decision (its really a no brainer). Immigration is another area that Brits are weary of. UKIP and many parts of the pathetic sensationalist British press have done a great job of presenting phony information on both issues. Farage is fueling the fire and capitalizing on people's willingness to listen to utter crap.

The Conservative party are toast. They shouldn't have been elected in the first place; Cameron was never fit for the position or the challenges that face(d) Britain. I couldn't be more disappointed in Nick Clegg either who seems more spineless than anyone else in Parliament (maybe a lesson for those who think Farage is the new white night?). Dare I say it, but Gordon Brown was the most competent of the three, and probably best equipped to deal with Britain's economic challenges.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,626,809 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
America's immigration laws are a disaster - it's one if the things being debated, and hopefully overhauled soon. Farage uses simple fear and basic political tactics to get his profile raised. Leaving the EU would be a disastrous decision (its really a no brainer). Immigration is another area that Brits are weary of. UKIP and many parts of the pathetic sensationalist British press have done a great job of presenting phony information on both issues. Farage is fueling the fire and capitalizing on people's willingness to listen to utter crap.

The Conservative party are toast. They shouldn't have been elected in the first place; Cameron was never fit for the position or the challenges that face(d) Britain. I couldn't be more disappointed in Nick Clegg either who seems more spineless than anyone else in Parliament (maybe a lesson for those who think Farage is the new white night?). Dare I say it, but Gordon Brown was the most competent of the three, and probably best equipped to deal with Britain's economic challenges.
Could not have said it better. This government has a way to make me pine even for "New Labour".... Which is quite a feat. Goodness knows I thought Bliar was a complete and utter disaster and real disappointment as Prime Minister but Cameron has certainly lowered the bar further IMO.

Gordon come back , all is forgiven... The problem is that the opposition is not the most charismatic and does not seem the most proactive on many issues either. I hope they get their act together, the left IMO was left decimated by Blair, with too much infighting and petty quarrels, demoralising Labour followers and their "grassroots" members.

As for Clegg, quite frankly I don't know how he can sleep at night. A political traitor of the worst kind. And I find it astonishing how Democrats still support Him and will not have a bad word said about Him. I guess a little taste of power is enough for many people's principles to fly out of the window.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 12:06 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,921,045 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
Could not have said it better. This government has a way to make me pine even for "New Labour".... Which is quite a feat. Goodness knows I thought Bliar was a complete and utter disaster and real disappointment as Prime Minister but Cameron has certainly lowered the bar further IMO.

Gordon come back , all is forgiven... The problem is that the opposition is not the most charismatic and does not seem the most proactive on many issues either. I hope they get their act together, the left IMO was left decimated by Blair, with too much infighting and petty quarrels, demoralising Labour followers and their "grassroots" members.

As for Clegg, quite frankly I don't know how he can sleep at night. A political traitor of the worst kind. And I find it astonishing how Democrats still support Him and will not have a bad word said about Him. I guess a little taste of power is enough for many people's principles to fly out of the window.
I don't know why anyone is surprised at Clegg or the Lib-Dems. That party have always been willing to trade their grannies for a sniff of power.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,626,809 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I don't know why anyone is surprised at Clegg or the Lib-Dems. That party have always been willing to trade their grannies for a sniff of power.
The Lib-Dems did always seem to sit on the fence waiting for the "right" side to jump off but I used to think they had some good policies but I would not trust them with anything these days.

At least they seem to be paying the price for a complete lack of honesty, probity and self respect. They seem finished as a party. Unless they find a new identity which is less despised by the public.

I had quite a few Lib-Dem friends and all of them bar one have left the party but I still see far too many Lib-Dems condoning Clegg's actions in power which I find truly despicable.

Don't any of these people have the backbone to stand to Clegg and publicly shame him and denounce his departure from his alleged beliefs and policies ? it makes me sick.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 12:30 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,921,045 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
The Lib-Dems did always seem to sit on the fence waiting for the "right" side to jump off but I used to think they had some good policies but I would not trust them with anything these days.

At least they seem to be paying the price for a complete lack of honesty, probity and self respect. They seem finished as a party. Unless they find a new identity which is less despised by the public.

I had quite a few Lib-Dem friends and all of them bar one have left the party but I still see far too many Lib-Dems condoning Clegg's actions in power which I find truly despicable.

Don't any of these people have the backbone to stand to Clegg and publicly shame him and denounce his departure from his alleged beliefs and policies ? it makes me sick.
Let us see how many become Tories just before the next election in a desperate attempt to hold their seats.
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