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As far as I'm aware William Wallace was a Brit but a Welsh Brit. All the people on that island could be said to be Brits but within that island there are 3 different identities. The same could be applied to the island of Ireland which has 2 identities. The great Irish hero Setanta is said to have Lancashire ancestry.
When you go back in history I think you have to judge a people by the times they were living in. Those who killed most in battle were treated as heroes. Saul and David in the Bible are an example of this. David being praised because he had killed more than Saul.
The Irish too have killed thousands in battle and some who were not killed in battle but killed in their own homes or out working in the fields.
The Irish too have been guilty of some terrible acts.
Good post! For some reason the British (particularly the English) are always painted as the bad guys! I think Vector watches too many Hollywood movies, the real William Wallace was not like the Hollywood version. The British have done some despicable acts in history but they are NO worse or better than anybody else! St. Patrick himself was a Briton sold into slavery in Ireland I believe?
It's laughable to read comments about the RUC.
They were a totally discredited force, the armed-wing of the Orange Order and Unionist hegemony.
They fought along side loyalist rioters and colluded with them while burning catholics out of their homes.
Once the Peace Process came to be, they were quickly got rid of.
Good riddance.
It's laughable to read comments about the RUC.
They were a totally discredited force, the armed-wing of the Orange Order and Unionist hegemony.
They fought along side loyalist rioters and colluded with them while burning catholics out of their homes.
Once the Peace Process came to be, they were quickly got rid of.
Good riddance.
Of course that the usual one-sided waffle. The RUC shot dead Protestant loyalists and that's fact. When your'e going on about this don't forget the Dublin government gave thousands of pounds to buy weapons for the IRA.
Good post! For some reason the British (particularly the English) are always painted as the bad guys! I think Vector watches too many Hollywood movies, the real William Wallace was not like the Hollywood version. The British have done some despicable acts in history but they are NO worse or better than anybody else! St. Patrick himself was a Briton sold into slavery in Ireland I believe?
easthome you are quite prepared to admit 'some despicable acts' and I have said there were some bad things done on the loyalist side. But I don't recall any of the same admissions being made by those from the Irish nationalist/republican side.
It always has to be the fault of someone else and the Irish are blameless. Yeah Patrick was a Brit captured and taken into slavery by the Irish. Oh hold on they would not do anything like that.
Of course that the usual one-sided waffle. The RUC shot dead Protestant loyalists and that's fact. When your'e going on about this don't forget the Dublin government gave thousands of pounds to buy weapons for the IRA.
I've been meaning to reply to your previous post to me, but this one is a perfect example of my point, and might be easier for you to see since you are responding to another poster.
Instead of unequivocally acknowledging the RUC had dirty 'cops" that were either Loyalist paramilitary members and/or sympathizers who beat and killed Irish Catholics(i.e. bigoted thugs), you also throw in that some Protestant Loyalist were killed by them.
No one is disputing that, and while it is worthy of discussion, you never seem to fully embrace the wrongdoing of the British side without equivocation or having to qualify your comment.
To give a comparative example, if a small town American police force had some KKK members who maimed or killed blacks, and most would clearly say it was based not on polivicing, rather hate. Yet someone replies that this small police force "also had killed some whites".
Needless to say that does not excuse the cops intentional bigotry and hatred toward the blacks.
In some cases the harm to blacks might have been unjustified and likely motivated by racism/bigotry. Where as in the course of any cops duty, they may be forced to kill anyone who is attacking them or someone else.
So yes, if on duty an RUC man (wearing an Orange Order shirt underneath his uniform) sees a Loyalist ready to throw a molotov cocktail at fellow police, he might shoot the guy, even though that person bleeds orange. But when that same officer targets an Irish Catholic, not for being in the act of mayhem, but out of bigotry/hate, those are two disparate actions.
Hopefully that makes the point clear, and hopefully you can acknowledge such without feeling as if you gave an inch of ground?
So has anyone any suggestions about how a unified Ireland might be achieved in the future or are we going to continue to rake over past history ?
I know that's how the Plastic Paddy barstoolers like to spend their time but it's not a topic of conversation I hear in Ireland.Ever.
So has anyone any suggestions about how a unified Ireland might be achieved in the future or are we going to continue to rake over past history ?
I know that's how the Plastic Paddy barstoolers like to spend their time but it's not a topic of conversation I hear in Ireland.Ever.
We have been discussing and suggesting how it may be achieved, and also discussing many of the impediments and road blocks as well. Many of the grievances of both sides stem from the past whether it be ancient history between the English/Irish, how the Scottish were planted their, the resulting consequences (both intentional and unintentional), the hope for peace via the GFA, the current stalemate between the leadership of the two main NI political parties, and even how Brexit is playing a role.
To think you could bottom line such a complex issue/conflict sounds naive at best, or very dismissive at worst.
As to you never hearing it in Ireland, it would not surprise me as with your attitude (assuming you espouse your bias against the Irish publicly). People will discuss issues with those with whom they feel has a genuine interest and is fair-minded. But if they sense the person is intractable, few will be willing to do so. If you are to be believed about an Irish home & wife, then you undoubtedly have been in the RoI more than I have. Yet in my limited time there and in NI it has been the opposite experience. While it is not a hot button front page issue year round, the subject and related issues are discussed.
But then again you know this by newspaper articles and the like, so why are you being obtuse about it, by saying you never hear about it.
We have been discussing and suggesting how it may be achieved, and also discussing many of the impediments and road blocks as well. Many of the grievances of both sides stem from the past whether it be ancient history between the English/Irish, how the Scottish were planted their, the resulting consequences (both intentional and unintentional), the hope for peace via the GFA, the current stalemate between the leadership of the two main NI political parties, and even how Brexit is playing a role.
To think you could bottom line such a complex issue/conflict sounds naive at best, or very dismissive at worst.
As to you never hearing it in Ireland, it would not surprise me as with your attitude (assuming you espouse your bias against the Irish publicly). People will discuss issues with those with whom they feel has a genuine interest and is fair-minded. But if they sense the person is intractable, few will be willing to do so. If you are to be believed about an Irish home & wife, then you undoubtedly have been in the RoI more than I have. Yet in my limited time there and in NI it has been the opposite experience. While it is not a hot button front page issue year round, the subject and related issues are discussed.
But then again you know this by newspaper articles and the like, so why are you being obtuse about it, by saying you never hear about it.
I live in Ireland on and off for about six months a year and have done for a very long time.The subject of a united Ireland never ever comes up in conversation.People are more concerned with the important things in their lives like work and family.
Indeed even in Northern Ireland which I visit regularly on business there is very little discussion about it because the vast majority of people don't want or don't expect it to happen.
All this historical guff that you and the rest of the Plastic Paddies drone on about on here month in month out has long been forgotten,mostly because people don't think the two countries can move forward without them putting the past behind them.
Inane point-scoring about political grievances might work well down the local Irish bar but,trust me,here in Ireland anyone seen doing that would be marked down as a knuckle-head straight away.
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