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Must say that folk such as Vector1 are trying to look intellectual, knowledgeable and so on but nice try but Dt Goebells is long gone to get a propaganda job from (!). It is a green corner as you said Ulsterman and apart from that pries giving a blessing I would remind all of the armaments stored in a monastery years ago. Even here in Glasgow decades back there was an RC chapel in the north of the city where a priest had to do a runner to Eire due to armaments stored in his building. The hard fact that is so truthful is the number of RC's supporting a historical bunce like the SF/IRA. Why nt be a bit more democratic and do the SDLP lot? That so many of that faith do what they are doing is disgusting and improper.
My family tradition is centuries old and Covenanter. Back in the sixteen hundreds the king tried to force the Church of England onto the Kirk (Church of Scotland folks!). Over 200,000 adults signed a covenanting petition in a Kirk cemetery in Edinburgh going against the Presbyterian church being hijacked. Ministers that refused to accept what was being put on the Kirk were disallowed from preaching in their churches and if did a service had to be 12 miles away. Eventually these conventicles would be raided by the dragons and people arrested, often tortured and executed. South of Glasgow there is a farmhouse in quiet moorland called Lochgoin that had a branch of my family there and a base for services. The year 1688 was the end of the persecution and on one occasion at a service there conducted by a minister they heard horses hoofs and got frightened and someone called that it might be soldiers. But someone shouted "It is John Howie (the farmer)..maybe he has good news for us." He pulled his horse up and called out in a loud voice "Huzzah, huzzah, Scotland has declared for King William of orange" and everyone cheered. i recounted this at a rally I spoke and and added "that was a Howie bring good news back then and I am doing the same for you now!"
Must say that folk such as Vector1 are trying to look intellectual, knowledgeable and so on but nice try but Dt Goebells is long gone to get a propaganda job from (!). It is a green corner as you said Ulsterman and apart from that pries giving a blessing I would remind all of the armaments stored in a monastery years ago. Even here in Glasgow decades back there was an RC chapel in the north of the city where a priest had to do a runner to Eire due to armaments stored in his building. The hard fact that is so truthful is the number of RC's supporting a historical bunce like the SF/IRA. Why nt be a bit more democratic and do the SDLP lot? That so many of that faith do what they are doing is disgusting and improper.
My family tradition is centuries old and Covenanter. Back in the sixteen hundreds the king tried to force the Church of England onto the Kirk (Church of Scotland folks!). Over 200,000 adults signed a covenanting petition in a Kirk cemetery in Edinburgh going against the Presbyterian church being hijacked. Ministers that refused to accept what was being put on the Kirk were disallowed from preaching in their churches and if did a service had to be 12 miles away. Eventually these conventicles would be raided by the dragons and people arrested, often tortured and executed. South of Glasgow there is a farmhouse in quiet moorland called Lochgoin that had a branch of my family there and a base for services. The year 1688 was the end of the persecution and on one occasion at a service there conducted by a minister they heard horses hoofs and got frightened and someone called that it might be soldiers. But someone shouted "It is John Howie (the farmer)..maybe he has good news for us." He pulled his horse up and called out in a loud voice "Huzzah, huzzah, Scotland has declared for King William of orange" and everyone cheered. i recounted this at a rally I spoke and and added "that was a Howie bring good news back then and I am doing the same for you now!"
Everyone cheered......
Yes, I was amazed to see priests involved in murder. They gave such a saintly air that it was hard to believe what they were accomplices in murder. I remember that priest in Scotland being involved. There was also another priest who was getting timers that were used for car parking. Then of course there was the priest who was said to have been behind the Claudy bombing. He got over the border and so couldn't be touched. In 1971 we had this...Two IRA escapees from Crumlin Road Prison in Belfast are arrested in a car approaching the border dressed as Catholic priests. Thy were accompanied by monks from the Cistercian monastery at Portglenone, Co Antrim.
rj think this might be the priest you were referring to.
The commercial explosives and detonators used in, what has been termed as, the PIRA’s most focused urban camping, were sourced in Scotland and supplied by a Glasgow priest.
John Bartholomew Burns was born in 1935, into a staunchly republican and traditional catholic family, they lived in Sneen, a small village, of a few hundred in the Ring of Kerry, on the western tip of Ireland. Burns went on to be schooled by religious orders and at 25 was ordained as a priest – 1960. As was the case with most Irish ordinations at the time, he was sent abroad to fulfil his ministry. His position was as a curate in St. Eunan’s, Gilmore Street in Clydebank on the outskirts of Glasgow. He stayed there until around 1966, when he was moved to the republican Parkhead area of East Glasgow, at St. Michael’s on Gallowgate. It was while he was there he would make contact with many who would help him arm the PIRA, with explosives stolen from coal mines in central Scotland. For four years, Burns would help set up routes of supply that would bring arms, explosives and cash to enable murder and mayhem on the streets of Ulster
1972, Burns was moved once more; this time to the tenements of Possilpark. The most disturbing thing about the Burns’ affair is its similarities to the Claudy Collusion. It was widely rumoured both in Glasgow and parts of Northern Ireland that the priest was arming terrorists, yet no action was taken. Despite the array of evidence that was mounting, the Scottish authorities never sought a warrant to arrest Father Burns. Things would soon come to a dramatic head.
On the 22nd March 1973, a special branch team had followed two men they had received a tip off about, two men with Irish accents. They had been in the company of the daughter of one of Sinn Fein’s leading members in Scotland, Caroline Renehan. The two men were followed from the Old Rutherglen Road, in the Gorbals, along a five mile trip to the parochial house next to St Teresa’s. Once there, they drove their Ford Capri, which was yellow and black into the driveway. The police surveillance then watched as Renehan arrived driving a white Morris and Father Burns greeted them at the door and showed then in. A short time later, the 22 year old Renehan exited the house and retrieved a dark coloured bag from her car, then she the re-entered the manse.
Four people would leave the dwelling, the two men helped by the priest loaded the Ford with a number of boxes and the female put a case in her car. The priest and the woman went back to the house and the others got into the vehicles to drive off.
As the car attempted to leave the police swooped on them and the parish house was surrounded. The occupants and the contents were taken into custody. The two men were identified as John and James Sweeny, two brothers from Donegal. They had in their possession 630 sticks of gelignite, which was contained in a number of boxes in the car. This is said to be equivalent to nearly two hundred pounds of commercial explosives. James Sweeny was found, also, to be in possession of £1,786, as well as Irish currency and US dollars. When Caroline Renehan’s car was searched an Air Lingus bag was found with 150 commercial detonators inside it, this gave the contents of the cars the capability of at least 150 explosions on the streets of Northern Ireland.
As the police swooped on those outside the parochial house, Burns watched from an upstairs window, he was joined by Father MartÃn, who during the trial of the accused would later recount that Burns told him the boxes contained gelignite. He would say that his fellow priest was “confused, agitated and very, very annoyedâ€. Martin says that Burns then said he “wished to take the day off to compose himself†Martin then said:
“I took my car out of the garage and gave him a lift down the road to the Gallowgate, where he said he was going to see some friends. I did not want to know where he was going.â€
Despite testimony by Martin that he helped Burns evade capture by the police, he never faced charges for perverting the course of justice or assisting an offender, these concerns were part of discourse between the police and the Roman Catholic Church.
Once the police eventually gained access to Burns’ private quarters they found that a large number of church donation envelopes had been rifled. Ripped open envelopes filled pockets of clothes hanging in the wardrobe. They also filled a waste paper bin in the room. Police also found a number of terrorist instruction manuals. These were titled: “Notes for unit intelligence officersâ€, “Notes for command intelligence officers†and “Training for recruitsâ€. In the bedside cabinet there was a also Sinn Fein propaganda sheet. They, the police, had uncovered the provos’ headquarters in Glasgow, nicely tucked up in a parochial house and being run by an Roman Catholic priest.
The presiding judge, Lord Cameron, would say in his summing up, that:
“You have been convicted of having in your possession, without any lawful object, a large quantity of high explosives for which no legal purpose can be suggestedâ€
He would further state:
“There is evidence of your association of a political kind with an organisation that at least allies itself with criminal violence. It would be impossible to overlook the very obvious possibilities for possession of these explosivesâ€
“Had the police not intercepted you on that day, there is no knowing where these explosives might have gone or to what cause they night have been put,â€
On the conviction of Caroline Renehan, the Judge stated that:
“It would appear from the evidence that your first association with these particular explosives came thought your friendship with Fr. Burns, whose actions demonstrated very eloquently what would appear to be his own sense of criminality.â€
He would also state that her political affiliation had led to her being in this situation. Caroline Renehan and James Sweeny were both gaoled, Renehan received a five years’ sentence and Sweeny a seven years’ term.
Burns, after he was help to escape by the fellow priest, was left off in Glasgow City Centre. He then made his way to the Parkhead area and was put up and looked after by a number of those who worked the provo ratlines with him. Within a week he was smuggled on board a fishing vessel and taken across the Irish Sea to the relative safety of Donegal. The man who had helped cause the deaths of dozens had escaped justice. The British Government lodged a extradition warrant for provo priest Burns, but this was rejected by the Central Criminal Court in Dublin.
It is not known if the Sweeny brothers ever got to confront the man they claimed set them up. He lived out his days in peace and without fear of ever being brought to account for his murderous crimes. It is forty years since the events of 1973, but the pain of those whose relatives were blown to bits by the explosive smuggled along Ulster’s Ratlines by Burns and other Roman Catholic clerics, has not abated, although the chance of them obtaining justice has.
Well done there Ulsterman and very much spot on. For some time after that there was friction i that Possil area of the city and when parades passed that chapel area police would be on duty until things calmed down. As you will of course know he is not alone from that corner involved in dastardly stuff and with the addition of sexual corruption nothing much has changed from that corner and the Reformation. When the South got it's independent that Church controlled jus about everything and got away with everything as well. Wider and improved education and the finacial help of the EU as the Republic was not able to improve itself the power and disturbing Rome was pushed back.
Official proof,as if it were needed,that the IRA still controls all aspects of Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland and,by extension,the Republic too.
Ignore the sychophantic claptrap from Plastic Paddy barstoolers.
Well done there Ulsterman and very much spot on. For some time after that there was friction i that Possil area of the city and when parades passed that chapel area police would be on duty until things calmed down. As you will of course know he is not alone from that corner involved in dastardly stuff and with the addition of sexual corruption nothing much has changed from that corner and the Reformation. When the South got it's independent that Church controlled jus about everything and got away with everything as well. Wider and improved education and the finacial help of the EU as the Republic was not able to improve itself the power and disturbing Rome was pushed back.
rj you would know more about Glasgow than me but I remember that time you spoke off. Father Fell was another provo priest only this time it was in Birmingham. Then there was Father Chesney who they reckon was in charge of the bomb attack in Claudy. Think it was seven people who died in that attack some of them children. He was got over the border into Donegal where he later died. It was said that the church and police got together to arrange his departure. I still can't remember the name of the priest who got parking meters to use in the making of bombs. I remember that he got back to Ireland and stood in an election.
Maybe the church in Eire has not got the same power they once had. I believe that's a good thing.
Official proof,as if it were needed,that the IRA still controls all aspects of Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland and,by extension,the Republic too.
Ignore the sychophantic claptrap from Plastic Paddy barstoolers.
Yes the shinners brought it down though the unionist party was to a degree at fault. However, the unionists were quite willing to get Stormont up and running again but sinn fein were not. The shinners never really wished to be part of a British connection in any shape or form and were only waiting for their chance to withdraw from Stormont. They refuse to take their seats at Westminster so we can see how they would feel the same about being at Stormont.
Yes the shinners brought it down though the unionist party was to a degree at fault. However, the unionists were quite willing to get Stormont up and running again but sinn fein were not. The shinners never really wished to be part of a British connection in any shape or form and were only waiting for their chance to withdraw from Stormont. They refuse to take their seats at Westminster so we can see how they would feel the same about being at Stormont.
Not that I am making excuses for why SF is not doing their part to get Stormont back running, but as usual you seem reluctant to give any reason/s for the DUP having some culpability. I guess saying a "degree of fault" is big for you, but lets face it, SF has some legitimate gripes.
While Irish Bob's opinion about "not giving an inch" mentality might be spot on, I do wonder why in an open discussion like this, you seem unwilling to even consider anything but your own ideological perspective.
Frankly, both sides have turned mole hills into mountains, and let minutia be the excuse for their intransigence.
Not that I am making excuses for why SF is not doing their part to get Stormont back running, but as usual you seem reluctant to give any reason/s for the DUP having some culpability. I guess saying a "degree of fault" is big for you, but lets face it, SF has some legitimate gripes.
While Irish Bob's opinion about "not giving an inch" mentality might be spot on, I do wonder why in an open discussion like this, you seem unwilling to even consider anything but your own ideological perspective.
Frankly, both sides have turned mole hills into mountains, and let minutia be the excuse for their intransigence.
`
Have to hand it to you for getting of a sticky wicket. You always turn the question back to find fault. Will you come out and say the 'shinners' are guilty of the murder of thousands. They have murdered/killed more people that any other group during the troubles. As I have said before ..a blind man could see where you are coming from.
When you start to ''even consider anything but your own ideological perspective '' I might consider doing the same.
Not that I am making excuses for why SF is not doing their part to get Stormont back running, but as usual you seem reluctant to give any reason/s for the DUP having some culpability. I guess saying a "degree of fault" is big for you, but lets face it, SF has some legitimate gripes.
While Irish Bob's opinion about "not giving an inch" mentality might be spot on, I do wonder why in an open discussion like this, you seem unwilling to even consider anything but your own ideological perspective.
Frankly, both sides have turned mole hills into mountains, and let minutia be the excuse for their intransigence.
`
So do you agree with Sinn Fein attending a memorial to this mass murderer....
Sinn Fein president Mary Lou McDonald has defended party members attending a commemoration to Shankill bomber Thomas Begley days after victims' families marked the 25th anniversary of the blast. The memorial event has been strongly criticised by relatives of the nine Shankill bomb victims who earlier this week gathered to remember their loved ones.
Sinn Fein members are expected to attend the tribute which is to take place at Belfast's Milltown Cemetery on Saturday. It comes as the family of Mr Begley insisted they are attending the commemoration despite earlier media reports that suggested they were snubbing the event.
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