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The SF are a bunch of very leftist and revolutionary basic gits. They try to be doing some would-be subtle stuff and it was them who deliberately knocked out the Assembly and it is correct that they did it deliberately. They do not represent the hypocrites who elect them to Westminster either. Oh and by the way folks they have moaned about how poor their vote was in the Republic's Presidential Election! I have been of the stance they would not do well in that event and proved right so well done south of the border. I am patting Southerners on the back for what they did and showed well! The SF/IRA could not care a tuppenny damn about Stormont. Those that put them into positions are sick in the head when it comes to using the grey cells.
Have to hand it to you for getting of a sticky wicket. You always turn the question back to find fault. Will you come out and say the 'shinners' are guilty of the murder of thousands. They have murdered/killed more people that any other group during the troubles. As I have said before ..a blind man could see where you are coming from.
When you start to ''even consider anything but your own ideological perspective '' I might consider doing the same.
Maybe you can convince yourself of that, but many times over a variety of aspects of this discussion you have proved yourself incapable of doing so with out throwing in "but the other side has also done worse". More often than not I have struck a moderate and reasoned tone, even if I am not as empathetic as you'd like me to be.
Yet I have not found a similar reciprocation on your part, nor others from the orange tribe.
Rjhowie is a perfect example, not even admitting their mistake for admonishing me about something I was proved correct on.
Be that as it may, my response to your next post might surprise you.
So do you agree with Sinn Fein attending a memorial to this mass murderer....
Sinn Fein president Mary Lou McDonald has defended party members attending a commemoration to Shankill bomber Thomas Begley days after victims' families marked the 25th anniversary of the blast. The memorial event has been strongly criticised by relatives of the nine Shankill bomb victims who earlier this week gathered to remember their loved ones.
Sinn Fein members are expected to attend the tribute which is to take place at Belfast's Milltown Cemetery on Saturday. It comes as the family of Mr Begley insisted they are attending the commemoration despite earlier media reports that suggested they were snubbing the event.
While I do not judge things I find hard to understand in many instances, this is an example of something I cannot fathom how SF feels obligated to do.
From what I remember of that incident, the guy was not attempting to blow up a military/RUC target, and instead killed (intentionally or accidentally) innocent children.
It matters not that they were attempting to kill UDA members, as they had the responsibility to insure innocent people were not accidentally killed.
An obvious question that could be posed to Kelly (or the family of Begley) is how forgiving would they be if a Loyalist group intended on killing IRA members, and instead had accidentally killed innocent Irish children?
If there answer is as expected by an decent person, they would naturally be appalled.
Thus if they could potentially see the evil in the act of their enemy, they should be able to see it in their own, regardless of "the cause".
On a related note, we bring up various movies/TV shows about the troubles. The one called "A Prayer for the Dying" depicted Rourke as a IRA guy fighting the Brits with a strong conviction of being righteous. Then when his unit sets a roadside bomb to blow up Brit soldiers, he is horrified to watch the British convoy pull aside and let a school bus full of kids go ahead only to be blown up.
He then goes on a cathartic journey to end his involvement with killing, even at his own demise.
So as to SF and their compulsion to attend, it baffles me on several levels, one of which I already covered. The other is how could they be so politically tone deaf as to attend such a memorial
I get the family attending, though I'd be ill to think a member of my family was responsible for killing innocent kids (even by accident), no matter how worthy the overall cause.
But to think a major political party would publicly attend is really beyond my ability to comprehend.
The SF are a bunch of very leftist and revolutionary basic gits. They try to be doing some would-be subtle stuff and it was them who deliberately knocked out the Assembly and it is correct that they did it deliberately. They do not represent the hypocrites who elect them to Westminster either. Oh and by the way folks they have moaned about how poor their vote was in the Republic's Presidential Election! I have been of the stance they would not do well in that event and proved right so well done south of the border. I am patting Southerners on the back for what they did and showed well! The SF/IRA could not care a tuppenny damn about Stormont. Those that put them into positions are sick in the head when it comes to using the grey cells.
the 12th festival looks like quite a nice family day out from what ive seen on tv , i wasnt aware that catholics were allowed be involved at any stage .
i couldnt care less if it is the case that catholics are not allowed be involved in those fraternities ,i dont subscribe to the idea that we should never have all male golf clubs etc either , political correctness has most things ruined and i see nothing wrong with a group celebrating protestantism or the protestant revolution , i do however support the right of residents in some areas to oppose marches if they feel marches can be troublesome , hence why i think a commission is needed , i imagine politics often infringes on the commission it being northern ireland though ? , SF do act cynically and in a very divisive marxists manner down here when it comes to certain issues so i could imagine the same happening but i doubt most catholics in northern ireland are raging marxists ( im going off on a tangent now a little )
i dont take it personally that unionists celebrate a victory several centuries ago on a number of days of the year , nations celebrate overcoming opponents in wars all of the time all over the world but it should not seep into every other area of life . sometimes you wonder if a minority of unionists live the 12th every day of their lives like groundhog day .
I like the comparison to Groundhog Day, as it does seem like some are caught in a time warp;
That is one of the most perplexing aspects of Unionist culture.
As you correctly point out many nations celebrate independence from an opponent that once dominated them, such as us Americans who celebrate July 4th. However that is one day a year, not a perpetual preparation stage, and marching intermittently throughout the year.
Who has time for such things?
Also, in relation to what I am discussing with Ulsterman, do you have any opinion as to why SF is insisting on their right to attend a memorial for the "Shankhill Bomber"
While I do not judge things I find hard to understand in many instances, this is an example of something I cannot fathom how SF feels obligated to do.
From what I remember of that incident, the guy was not attempting to blow up a military/RUC target, and instead killed (intentionally or accidentally) innocent children.
It matters not that they were attempting to kill UDA members, as they had the responsibility to insure innocent people were not accidentally killed.
An obvious question that could be posed to Kelly (or the family of Begley) is how forgiving would they be if a Loyalist group intended on killing IRA members, and instead had accidentally killed innocent Irish children?
If there answer is as expected by an decent person, they would naturally be appalled.
Thus if they could potentially see the evil in the act of their enemy, they should be able to see it in their own, regardless of "the cause".
On a related note, we bring up various movies/TV shows about the troubles. The one called "A Prayer for the Dying" depicted Rourke as a IRA guy fighting the Brits with a strong conviction of being righteous. Then when his unit sets a roadside bomb to blow up Brit soldiers, he is horrified to watch the British convoy pull aside and let a school bus full of kids go ahead only to be blown up.
He then goes on a cathartic journey to end his involvement with killing, even at his own demise.
So as to SF and their compulsion to attend, it baffles me on several levels, one of which I already covered. The other is how could they be so politically tone deaf as to attend such a memorial
I get the family attending, though I'd be ill to think a member of my family was responsible for killing innocent kids (even by accident), no matter how worthy the overall cause.
But to think a major political party would publicly attend is really beyond my ability to comprehend.
`
No it was not aimed at a military/RUC target it may have been aimed at a uda meeting. But as far as I recall and according to the the papers the uda did not meet there. The fact remains they went into a shop and murdered 9 people. Even if there had been a uda meeting upstairs that bomb went of in the shop downstairs. There would have been no chance of it exploding without causing deaths. Another fact is that they would all be Protestants who died. I think we should keep that in mind.
I think you have gave a fair assessment of that horrible event. These people try to present themselves as 'noble freedom fighters' They are nothing of the sort. They are a cold-blooded people who don't give a damn.
The father of the murderer who planted the bomb and was himself killed said if he had knew what his son was going to do he would have tied him to the bed and also said he would not attend the Sinn Fein memorial to him. This is how it was reported in Thursday's BT but his father reneged and attended the memorial. He had said before this that the family would go themselves to his grave.
That is one of the most perplexing aspects of Unionist culture.
As you correctly point out many nations celebrate independence from an opponent that once dominated them, such as us Americans who celebrate July 4th. However that is one day a year, not a perpetual preparation stage, and marching intermittently throughout the year.
Who has time for such things?
Also, in relation to what I am discussing with Ulsterman, do you have any opinion as to why SF is insisting on their right to attend a memorial for the "Shankhill Bomber"
`
There has been a British tradition of parading churches in England and elsewhere both Catholic and Protestant but of course that has died out over the years. The Salvation Army continued to parade and playing their music every Sunday morning after their church service. I think this too has been discontinued. The Hibernians parade to this very day. In past times the Orangemen and Hibernians helped each other regarding their musical instruments and I remember reading in the BT of a Hibernian who had the keys to the Orange Hall which he used to open for the Orangemen before their return. Put the kettle on etc. Most parades here are church parades plus a lot of band parades when bands are judged on their music and appearance.
The main parades of the OO is the 1st and 12th of July. Remembering the Somme and the Boyne.
That is one of the most perplexing aspects of Unionist culture.
As you correctly point out many nations celebrate independence from an opponent that once dominated them, such as us Americans who celebrate July 4th. However that is one day a year, not a perpetual preparation stage, and marching intermittently throughout the year.
Who has time for such things?
Also, in relation to what I am discussing with Ulsterman, do you have any opinion as to why SF is insisting on their right to attend a memorial for the "Shankhill Bomber"
`
i have not been following that story at all , we had a presidential election here on friday and it has consumed the news , obviously that shankill mass murder attack was an obscenity and the guy who did it should not be honoured.
not much more i can say , i dont vote sinn fein , never have , never will .
i have not been following that story at all , we had a presidential election here on friday and it has consumed the news , obviously that shankill mass murder attack was an obscenity and the guy who did it should not be honoured.
not much more i can say , i dont vote sinn fein , never have , never will .
It's good to here that. Living here we are inclined to think (sometimes) that every nationalist votes sinn fein but of course that's not true many vote for the SDLP but not enough to get them back they once were ie the main nationalist party. Unionist leaders of the past have said that around a third of Catholics vote unionist. I'm a bit doubtful about that but still some might do so.
I would say irish-bob that the Orange parades are very pleasant to watch. As a young bloke I was an office boy in the city centre here in Glasgow and I worked a Saturday morning in the head office of a big company. Each July the Glasgow Boyne celebration parade would pass yards away from us round the corner on a main street. Some of the typists and a couple of us would slip out the back door to a lane and go round to watch a bit of the big parade. And the RC girls came out as well to enjoy the colour and the music and we all had a great skip off1
You also made me relax when you said that your re-elected President was an insufferable windbag. I could not do much when he was originally elected but sit with my mouth open and wondered how the country could put him in office. When he appeared on the news here I groaned and switched somewhere else. People deserved someone better than him but thanks for helping me remove my guilt dear man! I am also pleased that the folk over the Border scuppered the SF.
Have heard Ulsterman of the suggestion that some RC people vote Unionist and although it is difficult to figure that one out I have sometimes mused that some better off ones might do so as th SDLP probably don't encourage them much.
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