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Great piece from the excellent Brendan O'Neil who argues the failure of Ireland's 20th century rulers to make nationalism work means they preferred the EU's colonial project...and go berserk when the Brits opt for self-rule!
Paddy basically likes to be told what to do.First by the Brits,then the Catholic Church who ruled for most of the century with complete freedom to abuse and molest anyone they wanted,and now by the EU.
You are quite right Ulsterman in again reminding that there were massive building of Council Housing in traditional RC areas where the IRA planned their violence for "unity." I can also recall on visits decades ago and what you said about Shankhill as an example was spot on.
Out of curiosity, do you differentiate Protestants differently with acronyms that represent their various denominations?
I am also curious what you and other Unionists think is the reason for the housing disparity in the late 20th century?
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I suspect that the more decent people in such areas include more reasonable ones who would say support the SDLP. Not my corner but they at least were not hand in glove with the terrorist mindset.
Do you feel the same way about those who now support the DUP instead of the more moderate UUP?
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Those folk who are so into a unity with the South should try and massage their grey cells and take note of what I said a while back about Eire scrubbing claims to Ulster and also that the Republic is not out there like the SF lot campaigning for a union. I think Ireland has had a generally reasonable stance and they also are more sharp at realising the sheer financial cost of such a direction.
While I'd agree that economics play a large role (sometimes disproportional) in the future on NI (frankly everywhere for that matter), it alone does not erase some facts you might be overlooking.
The primary reason the RoI gave up historical claims to NI was the GFA. While the more moderate UUP & SDLP were key, had Republicans & Loyalists not been on board, the GFA would have been meaningless and not passed.
Also, while the GFA does leave the decision to the people of NI, all the major parties in the RoI still have a untied Ireland in their platforms. Without the hope and promise of peace/stability in NI, the RoI would not have changed their constitution.
Great piece from the excellent Brendan O'Neil who argues the failure of Ireland's 20th century rulers to make nationalism work means they preferred the EU's colonial project...and go berserk when the Brits opt for self-rule!
Paddy basically likes to be told what to do.First by the Brits,then the Catholic Church who ruled for most of the century with complete freedom to abuse and molest anyone they wanted,and now by the EU.
Spot on..nail on the head. Mention of the RC church and the present Pope has at least recognized that bad things went on. The latest being that convents were visited by priests for sex with the nuns. If someone had said that not so along ago there would have been an outcry....
Maria Monk has been well and truly vindicated but they made her life hell.
You are quite right Ulsterman in again reminding that there were massive building of Council Housing in traditional RC areas where the IRA planned their violence for "unity." I can also recall on visits decades ago and what you said about Shankhill as an example was spot on.I suspect that the more decent people in such areas include more reasonable ones who would say support the SDLP. Not my corner but they at least were not hand in glove with the terrorist mindset. Those folk who are so into a unity with the South should try and massage their grey cells and take note of what I said a while back about Eire scrubbing claims to Ulster and also that the Republic is not out there like the SF lot campaigning for a union. I think Ireland has had a generally reasonable stance and they also are more sharp at realising the sheer financial cost of such a direction.
rj, there were a lot of lies told about Ulster and nobody wanted to hear another side to it. Republicans jumped on the bandwagon of protest which was going on in other parts of the world and so unionists were the bad people. Northern Ireland 68 gives some enlightenment as to what happened then. Unionists were'nt perfect (what government is ).
James McGuinness was a Catholic who won the Victoria Cross in WW2. A campaign was started by one man in particular to get a statue/memorial made to him. He said it was because he was a Catholic he was being ignored. I don't think there was a statue to an individual soldier in those days just their name on the Cenotaph. James arrived back in Belfast and was received at the City Hall by the Lord Mayor and other dignitaries. The Prime Minister of Ulster Basil Brooke sent him a message of congratulations and there is a mural to him in a unionist area of Belfast. More recently it has come to light that James took another route to come back home to Belfast and instead of sailing into Belfast ( where all the dignitaries were waiting to welcome him ) he took the boat to Larne.
When he arrived home to the 'Village' on the Donegall Road ( a Protestant unionist area ) they had the street arrayed with bunting etc but James being the modest man he was slipped in the back door of his house. However, the people had arranged a reception in a local cinema and this he did attend.
Spot on..nail on the head. Mention of the RC church and the present Pope has at least recognized that bad things went on. The latest being that convents were visited by priests for sex with the nuns. If someone had said that not so along ago there would have been an outcry....
Maria Monk has been well and truly vindicated but they made her life hell.
The local priest often used to drink in my local.He like a drink.Quite a lot.
He said the nickname for the local covent among his fellow priests was the Virgin Megastore.
The local priest often used to drink in my local.He like a drink.Quite a lot.
He said the nickname for the local covent among his fellow priests was the Virgin Megastore.
It reminds me of a fella I worked with who told me when they were in the junior BB and camped on the Antrim coast ( think it was Portstewart ) and they would go into an amusement arcade. There was a priest who would come in and play the machines. One of the guys said that the priest would visit the convent regularly. They didn't believe him but agreed to follow the priest and yes he did go to a door in the wall and went in. That's what that fella in work said to me I was a bit dubious but time has shown he might have been telling the truth.
Dear oh dear Vector1. The UUP is more moderate than the DUP thus suggesting the Democratic Unionists are dodgy and thus ignore the SDLP and SF corners? The SDLP is a non violent history corner but the other SF/IRA lot are damn well not in that decent corner. On the Unionist side the DUP grew and overtook the UUP and includes an awful lot of decent and reasonable Protestants so you are very silly at your direction. Trying to imply maybe without fully thinking properly that the DUP and UUP corners are somehow a touch similar with one part of Unionism a violent party such and another not. Daft. Oh and before I forget I can in furtherance ad to my agreement on where Republicans and RC's lived as over the years on my trips to Ulster vsisted such areas and noticed no living in slums.
In addition you just deliberately ignored what Ulsterman said about the non-Unionist side and the hard fact that they DID get modern housing across the Province and indeed many of the Republican violent incidents happening in their areas had modern hoses in the background. So you are not somehow being that creative in your brain cells whilst trying to show some form of superiority in brain use. Many IRA planning groups met in the modern houses but such are suitably to be ignored?
Dear oh dear Vector1. The UUP is more moderate than the DUP thus suggesting the Democratic Unionists are dodgy and thus ignore the SDLP and SF corners?
I only have a minute, so I will address this question now.
In answer to your question, my thrust was to point out that the green tribe has voted for the more hardline SF over the more moderate SDLP, in the same way the orange tribe has done with the DUP over the UUP.
That is not to say I consider the DUP "dodgy" as you put it, but they clearly are more hardline. The same can be said of SF.
Yet, you only seem to focus on the Irish/Catholics voting for the hardliners, yet fail to bring up how the British/Protestants are doing the exact same thing.
So if the green side can be questioned/derided for their voting choices, couldn't the same be said of the orange side?
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It reminds me of a fella I worked with who told me when they were in the junior BB and camped on the Antrim coast ( think it was Portstewart ) and they would go into an amusement arcade. There was a priest who would come in and play the machines. One of the guys said that the priest would visit the convent regularly. They didn't believe him but agreed to follow the priest and yes he did go to a door in the wall and went in. That's what that fella in work said to me I was a bit dubious but time has shown he might have been telling the truth.