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You have a groaning nonsense Vector1 of hateful songs mentality and one can make allowances for your geographical distance. But when you look over the pond at the history of his land dear oh dear. To his limited understanding any Protestant song re the Protestant-RC situation is labelled is a groan. When one looks at traditional loyalist songs like the famous "Sash My Father Wore" it was based on enjoyment and so on nit automatically hateful whatsoever. "Derry's Walls" illustrating the Siege of Londonderry where the number of Prots who died of starvation was well into 4-figures. What a limited use of brain power to just willy-nilly come out with nonsense on songs.
Not that I want this discussion to focus too much on soccer, but this "sport" does seem to consume much of the world, and in places like NI & parts of Scotland, it seems certain teams have a sectarian/religious divide unlike anything much of western culture experiences.
So when you say someone could not go into the lions den of another team wearing opposite apparel, I imagine you are correct.
However those two team examples you give might reflect soccer as a whole in the UK (no sectarianism), but you must admit the recent examples I have been posting videos of, are in fact related.
Why is this important?
Maybe it isn't in the sense there seems to be an apathy and even jaded attitude toward it. But just because things "have always been that way", does not excuse the behavior.
More importantly, maybe it is one of the components holding the orange and green back from getting along.
BTW - I was invited to a football game by a friend across the country for his home town team against mine with good seats. So I flew out there and on game day wore my jacket showing off my team (despised by his fans).
Did I take a little verbal abuse, all be it good natured?
Sure
As the game went on and my team was winning, did a few drunks/druggies get a little obnoxious with their comments?
Yes.
However no one physically accosted me, nor were the attacks related to religion, race, etc.
So I cannot understand why soccer hooligans cannot control themselves without resorting to violence, attacking referees, and even burning their stadiums to the ground.
`
Again I suggest that using football to highlight some kind of religious hatred is not using a very good example, you think only Rangers or Celtic sing hateful songs about each other? Again I suggest you sit in the West Ham home end wearing a Chelsea shirt (or a Tottenham shirt if you like) and see what happens.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by easthome
Again I suggest that using football to highlight some kind of religious hatred is not using a very good example, you think only Rangers or Celtic sing hateful songs about each other? Again I suggest you sit in the West Ham home end wearing a Chelsea shirt (or a Tottenham shirt if you like) and see what happens.
Heck, he could go to Philadelphia and wear paraphernalia for an opposing team and then cheer for the opposing team. He could go for most sports, to most cities, not any one in particular. Then while he's waiting to be seen in the emergency room he can post about the love fest.
He's welcome to his views, but they are not based in reality.
I used to work on broadcast crews at Eagles games to get extra money. I finally called a halt to that after working a game when the Cowboys were the visiting team, because a player shoved me so hard that I almost landed on my face, and I'm an average size female. I was just doing my job, dragging a thousand foot cable for a cameraman.
In the US, public schools have no religious instruction. They used to pray but in the 60s that was found to be unconstitutional by the courts. I remember when that happened. There are still idiots who have a problem with that court ruling. Some cities and towns think it's a good idea to pray. The courts have told them no. In the county where I live, the school board (public schools) were told to start each meeting with a prayer. They protested but eventually gave in. I read in the local paper that the first month that they were supposed to have a prayer, they asked someone from the local church of Wicca to do an invocation.
Sure. . .no religious problems in this country.
I won't get into the Civil War here, but there's a lot online. I spent about a year researching it in relation to my people when I was actively doing genealogy.
Was it a Judge Moore who had the Ten Commandments in his courthouse but was ordered to remove it ? I seem to remember reading something about that.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with having a Christian half-hour in schools but times change and we have to live with that.
There was a time when homosexuality was against the law and homosexuals could be sent to prison. The homosexuals replied that all they wished for was not to be classed as a criminal because of their lifestyle and so it was decriminalized. Was that the end of it? I think we know the answer to that.
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman
Was it a Judge Moore who had the Ten Commandments in his courthouse but was ordered to remove it ? I seem to remember reading something about that.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with having a Christian half-hour in schools but times change and we have to live with that.
There was a time when homosexuality was against the law and homosexuals could be sent to prison. The homosexuals replied that all they wished for was not to be classed as a criminal because of their lifestyle and so it was decriminalized. Was that the end of it? I think we know the answer to that.
Ulsterman, the 10 commandments were in courthouses all over this country. It was cheap and easy decor.
Courthouses all over the country had to take that decor down and figure out something else. Several judges had a problem with it. I think you're referring to Roy Moore in Alabama. That was the least of his problems that became public knowledge.
In this country there is separation of church and state written into the constitution. That goes back to English law that labeled practitioners of all religions that were not Anglican as nonconformists. Nonconformists had fewer rights as citizens.
In the present time, there are some people in this country who are referred to as the religious right. They want their religious views codified into law. That includes laws concerning abortion and government sanctioned prayer. That's why I made mention of the school board decision to start off with the Church of Wicca. That flew in the face of the person who pressured them to start the meetings with a prayer, yet those people voluntarily maintained the area surrounding two major roadways in the county seat.
Ulsterman, the 10 commandments were in courthouses all over this country. It was cheap and easy decor.
Courthouses all over the country had to take that decor down and figure out something else. Several judges had a problem with it. I think you're referring to Roy Moore in Alabama. That was the least of his problems that became public knowledge.
In this country there is separation of church and state written into the constitution. That goes back to English law that labeled practitioners of all religions that were not Anglican as nonconformists. Nonconformists had fewer rights as citizens.
In the present time, there are some people in this country who are referred to as the religious right. They want their religious views codified into law. That includes laws concerning abortion and government sanctioned prayer. That's why I made mention of the school board decision to start off with the Church of Wicca. That flew in the face of the person who pressured them to start the meetings with a prayer, yet those people voluntarily maintained the area surrounding two major roadways in the county seat.
Roy Moore, yes that was the name. It was the same in Ulster the Nonconformists here sailed to America because of their treatment. Their children were considered bastards their marriages were not recognized and they were not allowed to be buried in the cemeteries. This says it all
For sixty years, until the late 1770s, tens of thousands of northern Presbyterians emigrated to the American colonies. The motivation for the exodus appears to have been primarily economic, though their lack of political and religious liberty contributed. Anglican Protestants were alarmed at the implications. ' The papists being already five or six to one ', observed Bishop King in 1718, ' and being a breeding people, you may imagine in what condition we are like to be. '. Yet they could not bring themselves to accord equality to Presbyterians.
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman
Roy Moore, yes that was the name. It was the same in Ulster the Nonconformists here sailed to America because of their treatment. Their children were considered bastards their marriages were not recognized and they were not allowed to be buried in the cemeteries. This says it all
For sixty years, until the late 1770s, tens of thousands of northern Presbyterians emigrated to the American colonies. The motivation for the exodus appears to have been primarily economic, though their lack of political and religious liberty contributed. Anglican Protestants were alarmed at the implications. ' The papists being already five or six to one ', observed Bishop King in 1718, ' and being a breeding people, you may imagine in what condition we are like to be. '. Yet they could not bring themselves to accord equality to Presbyterians.
The vast majority of people from Ulster Province landed in the colonies in Philadelphia. An interesting part of the weirdness that became the US was that William Penn had also invited Germanic people (remember, Germany did not then exist as a country). The Scotch-Irish and the Germanic people would frequently get into it with each other. The Penn family ruled the colony. If they were called in to settle a dispute, the group found to be at fault would be told to leave the area. They frequently would move south on the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road.
This resulted in settlements of the Scotch-Irish and Germanic people running south in the "backcountry". The result of this is things like Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, best known for it's Pennsylvania Dutch population. Dutch was a corruption of Deutsche, in this case. There were actual Dutch from the Netherlands elsewhere in the colonies.
The vast majority of people from Ulster Province landed in the colonies in Philadelphia. An interesting part of the weirdness that became the US was that William Penn had also invited Germanic people (remember, Germany did not then exist as a country). The Scotch-Irish and the Germanic people would frequently get into it with each other. The Penn family ruled the colony. If they were called in to settle a dispute, the group found to be at fault would be told to leave the area. They frequently would move south on the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road.
This resulted in settlements of the Scotch-Irish and Germanic people running south in the "backcountry". The result of this is things like Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, best known for it's Pennsylvania Dutch population. Dutch was a corruption of Deutsche, in this case. There were actual Dutch from the Netherlands elsewhere in the colonies.
Seems they were welcome and then not welcome
It need hardly be said that these emigrants of 1718 were a tough people. They settled on the Indian border, and were an efficient protection to the province, which was what they were intended to be, and was, indeed, the reason why they were at first welcomed by the earlier colonists. They were a terror to the Indians, and they soon gained a reputation for fighting and pugnacity that often left them in bad odour with the Quakers and the State Authorities. It is recorded of the New Derry men that their arrival and settlement on the frontier were resented by colonists nearby, who organised an expedition to drive out the newcomers by force. When these people arrived at the edge of the clearing, they found the Ulster emigrants assembled their minister in the midst. One good look was sufficient. There was no attack. Very quietly they made for home.
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