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Location: Northern Ireland and temporarily England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
I have read that Sinn Fein has been calling for a vote, even though with current demographics it is predicted that the Unionists are in the majority still.
So one must wonder what advantage it would be for SF to call for a vote that is perdicted to go against their position
Clearly their request alone has not triggered a vote, so I am wondering what would then?
I don't know why or what they are doing this for? Martin McGuiness is coming here to try and get the Americans to influence the budget.
Again why? SF always go on a hissy fit if they don't get what they want and then come over here thinking that it will work.
Anyway, not really sure what's the point in a referendum because it'll obviously not pass. The longer we're in the UK the less people will want to leave.
Re: "Yes? Hardly anyone wants to join the Republic these days. Even the Catholics, we get too much out of being in the UK to throw it away"
You may be right......for now. And who really knows actually where the future history of NI will go? Events in future will obviously determine whether or not the the two entities 'unite'. And for that to happen I'd suggest that both entities would undoubtedly have to see the unification as a win- win for both. Right now I'd say this is not on the immediate horizon.
Well back when the "Celtic Tiger" economy was going, there were not calls for a vote in the early years after the GFA was in place.
So if another economic boon were to occur in the south, will that alone be reason for Unionists to vote for reunification?
I don't think so, at least not a decent amount of them. Therefore I am not sure what would be a win-win from their perspective
Anyway, not really sure what's the point in a referendum because it'll obviously not pass. The longer we're in the UK the less people will want to leave.
As much as I've tried to educate myself on the Good Friday Agreement, I am not sure what can trigger a vote.
I also am not sure if it is a one off proposition, or it can be called for as many times as desired.
So the questions is, what are those triggers, because I do not know what exactly needs to happen for it to come about.
As to it not passing as more time passes, I imagine that is a reason for having it happen sooner than later.
Another reason SF thinks it should be called is that their credibility as the ruling Nationalist party might be tied to them making progress toward that end.
If I recall correctly, McGuinness said a few years back that there should be a vote no later than 2021, but again I am not sure what that date is predicated on?
Obviously the hardcore Republicans feel SF is a sellout to the cause, which they interpret as a continued armed struggle. How long they will wait is also in question.
I don't know why or what they are doing this for? Martin McGuiness is coming here to try and get the Americans to influence the budget.
Maybe time for the paymasters in London to exert some influence. Link future budget rises to social reforms, such as desegregated schools and removal of ghetto walls dividing communities. Remember those news films of young Germans pulling down the Berlin Wall? Where is the NI equivalent for the ironically named Peace Walls? What chance of peace in the future when children are separated at school age on the grounds of religions their parents don't even observe? If Britain is to fund this failed state, we should be using a carrot and stick to change life there for the better. No reforms should equal budget cuts.
Maybe time for the paymasters in London to exert some influence. Link future budget rises to social reforms, such as desegregated schools and removal of ghetto walls dividing communities. Remember those news films of young Germans pulling down the Berlin Wall? Where is the NI equivalent for the ironically named Peace Walls? What chance of peace in the future when children are separated at school age on the grounds of religions their parents don't even observe? If Britain is to fund this failed state, we should be using a carrot and stick to change life there for the better. No reforms should equal budget cuts.
Agree with the underlying sentiment, but as someone who spent 10 years in Ulster, mostly on the southern side, but some in the north too, think the carrot & stick will need to be very nuanced, otherwise it will be a heavy lift.
The inbred tribal attitudes on both sides run deep, and are depressing. I can recall from the 70's people saying the young people are our best hope, which I agree with, but it hasn't happened yet. As a teenager in southern Ulster I was schooled in all the evils that Britain visited on Ireland. Ireland good/England bad. I assume teenagers 10 miles north were being schooled in the reverse. Their actions would certainly suggest so.
Agree with the underlying sentiment, but as someone who spent 10 years in Ulster, mostly on the southern side, but some in the north too, think the carrot & stick will need to be very nuanced, otherwise it will be a heavy lift.
The inbred tribal attitudes on both sides run deep, and are depressing. I can recall from the 70's people saying the young people are our best hope, which I agree with, but it hasn't happened yet. As a teenager in southern Ulster I was schooled in all the evils that Britain visited on Ireland. Ireland good/England bad. I assume teenagers 10 miles north were being schooled in the reverse. Their actions would certainly suggest so.
Without taking sides, from a historical standpoint, wasn't your schooling fairly accurate?
I also don't know how you could possibly assume such a thing is true in the reverse "10 miles north". Historically it is not as if Ireland had made war with or incursions into Britain. Nor did they subjugate Britain.
So unless those in the Unionist areas of NI are teaching kids historical lies, how can they make out Ireland to be the boogey man?
Without taking sides, from a historical standpoint, wasn't your schooling fairly accurate?
I also don't know how you could possibly assume such a thing is true in the reverse "10 miles north". Historically it is not as if Ireland had made war with or incursions into Britain. Nor did they subjugate Britain.
So unless those in the Unionist areas of NI are teaching kids historical lies, how can they make out Ireland to be the boogey man?
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My schooling wasn't inaccurate, it was incomplete. Truth, but not the whole truth etc. A political slant on history. As if atrocities such as the killing of innocent civilians were perpetrated only by the Brits.
I'm not defending the Brits, they have a lot to answer for, but it's not conducive to progress either, if kids are indoctrinated with propaganda, and I think that happened on both sides in the past. Not sure about today.
It's really really easy to assume that the reverse was happening 10 miles north. Imagine driving your car with Florida tags into Georgia, and because of your tags being treated with suspicion that you were a terrorist, and up to no good. That probably doesn't make much sense to you, but it was the reality in the 70's. It's also not a million miles away from sentiments expressed by black people in the US today. DWB etc.
Ya gotta learn to walk in the other person's shoes.
I am an America of Irish Catholic extraction. I have studied British history both at University and on my own. I say that not to say that I know more then anyone else but that is the lens through which I look at this.
The first time I visited the UK, my family and I were in Scotland and the queens picture was on the money, the stamps, it was everywhere. I asked my Father how he would feel if he lived in Scotland (my adopted Father was of Scottish extraction to further muddy the waters of my opinion), we both agreed that not one day could pass where we would find that acceptable.
It feels predatory the way in which England conquered countries. Personally I would want Irish to be unified and independent, the same for Wales and Scotland. I was surprised when Scotland did not take the chance to take back their Independence.
I do not believe in an official religion being tied to any country, no matter the religion. I guess maybe its better to forget the history and the horrible things that were done, but I can't get away from the idea that a country should not be taxed with keeping a queen and her family so well cared for when she has plenty of her own money and so much of the population lives below the poverty line. I would never choose to pay for that.
I don't hate the queen but I am not fond of the whole aristocratic system that she personifies. In the end it will be the popular vote that decides it but I hope to see Ireland free and unified some day.
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