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I like the way the new Irish leader Leo Varadker is warning Theresa May about the DUP when his anti-abortion views are pretty much the same as theirs.
It was only very recently he changed his mind on abortions for women who become pregnant by rape or incest.
The hypocrisy of politicians is breath-taking.
On that, I am sure many of us would agree, regardless of the country we hail from.
In regard to what you said about Irish grievances against the British, I'd point out that
holding "grudges" against current people for what their ancestors have done, is not fair or productive.
That is especially true of past injustices that have long ago ended.
However from some of the Irish's perspective, their land is still occupied and ruled by a foreign government to this day. So it is not as if a united Ireland occurred 150 years ago, and they are still griping about it.
Surely you can see the difference, right?
On that, I am sure many of us would agree, regardless of the country we hail from.
In regard to what you said about Irish grievances against the British, I'd point out that
holding "grudges" against current people for what their ancestors have done, is not fair or productive.
That is especially true of past injustices that have long ago ended.
However from some of the Irish's perspective, their land is still occupied and ruled by a foreign government to this day. So it is not as if a united Ireland occurred 150 years ago, and they are still griping about it.
Surely you can see the difference, right?
However a majority of people living in Northern Ireland do not consider the land to be occupied.
In much the same way as a majority of people living on the Falkland Islands do not consider the land to be occupied even though at various times the islands have had French, British, Spanish, and Argentine settlements.
History is a complicated business but it's good that everyone in Ireland agrees that until there's a majority vote in favour of a united Ireland it remains a part of the UK.
It's not our fault even a majority of Catholics in Northern Ireland don't wish for unification at the moment - they only have to look south of the border to see what a nightmare it would be.
And when I was at my home in Ireland earlier this year I asked my chums down the pub whether they'd like us to give them NI back.
"Noooooooooooooooooooooooo " was the collective answer.
On that, I am sure many of us would agree, regardless of the country we hail from.
In regard to what you said about Irish grievances against the British, I'd point out that
holding "grudges" against current people for what their ancestors have done, is not fair or productive.
That is especially true of past injustices that have long ago ended.
However from some of the Irish's perspective, their land is still occupied and ruled by a foreign government to this day. So it is not as if a united Ireland occurred 150 years ago, and they are still griping about it.
Surely you can see the difference, right?
What is the basis for the view that the Republic of Ireland has a natural right to that land other than geographical reasons? Was there a united Irish state prior to the Normans taking an interest in the island?
What is the basis for the view that the Republic of Ireland has a natural right to that land other than geographical reasons? Was there a united Irish state prior to the Normans taking an interest in the island?
Genuine question, educate me.
Most modern nation states are relatively recent but yes Ireland was united under Brian Boru in the 10th Century. Most of the northern half of Ireland was under the Ui Neill and the Connachta which included all of Ulster and Connacht. My paternal family have links to the Northern Ui Neill. Brian broke the Ui Neill's power in the north and became High King of all of Ireland.
Ulster has always been intricately linked with the rest of Ireland just like the other provinces. There was always rebellions against British rule. The Normans actually took on Irish ways and intermarried so that they ended up speaking Irish and following Brehon laws. King Edward III introduced laws to try and stop this fraternization. It didn't work though because they had become too enmeshed in Irish ways. This is why absentee landlords became more common so that they would keep their distance from the Irish.
There are people a lot more versed in Irish history than myself so I hope some on this forum can comment further but all the Irish have connections all over Ireland going back centuries. While their wasn't a nation state in the modern sense (like every other country today) they were all the same kindred and all the provinces have shared history. The partitioning of Ireland was relatively recent and before this Ireland was one country although part of the UK.
Would people think that if Scotland wanted to become independent it would be okay to split the country?
Hopefully people can comment in a mature way and everyone can remain respectful.
However a majority of people living in Northern Ireland do not consider the land to be occupied.
In much the same way as a majority of people living on the Falkland Islands do not consider the land to be occupied even though at various times the islands have had French, British, Spanish, and Argentine settlements.
History is a complicated business but it's good that everyone in Ireland agrees that until there's a majority vote in favour of a united Ireland it remains a part of the UK.
It's not our fault even a majority of Catholics in Northern Ireland don't wish for unification at the moment - they only have to look south of the border to see what a nightmare it would be.
And when I was at my home in Ireland earlier this year I asked my chums down the pub whether they'd like us to give them NI back.
"Noooooooooooooooooooooooo " was the collective answer.
the majority of israelis dont believe that their state is occupying land which doesnt belong to them , the UN do however
you do really come out with the most awful blather , were you born a troll or did you just hone your skills to an extremely high level ?
What is the basis for the view that the Republic of Ireland has a natural right to that land other than geographical reasons? Was there a united Irish state prior to the Normans taking an interest in the island?
Genuine question, educate me.
well apart from the fact that the north eastern corner was planted with people loyal to another monarch - head of state , the place was partitioned less than a hundred years ago
your people went everywhere and still hold land which the likes of argentina and spain object to yet are now all upset because the irish like the idea of having control over the entirety of a small island , you do know the good friday agreement removed from the irish constitution the right to northern ireland unless a majority consent ?
are you ok with the country being united should a majority in northern ireland desire it ?
well apart from the fact that the north eastern corner was planted with people loyal to another monarch - head of state , the place was partitioned less than a hundred years ago
your people went everywhere and still hold land which the likes of argentina and spain object to yet are now all upset because the irish like the idea of having control over the entirety of a small island , you do know the good friday agreement removed from the irish constitution the right to northern ireland unless a majority consent ?
Argentina was founded on stolen land, and Spain doesn't have a leg to stand on in the Gibraltar issue unless it hands over Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco. They use weak geographic arguments like you do. It's funny how Irish nationalists argue that their island should naturally be united because it's a small island, yet simultaneously support Scottish independence on our small island. Cognitive dissonance.
My government (ie. living people who were involved in the past events that led to the creation of NI) inherited a situation where they own a parcel of land on he neighboring island where most people want to remain a part of Britain. The peace agreement, which Ireland signed up to, puts the destiny of Northern Ireland squarely in the hands of its population. The only people who think this is unreasonable tend to be extremists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob
are you ok with the country being united should a majority in northern ireland desire it ?
Me too.
And I suspect that's what most people in the UK think.
The big problem for Jarry and the others familiar with the sound of scraping shovels is that people,particularly Catholics,across the island of Ireland don't appear to want it.
Just yet.
Is it not obvious? The UK is the 6th richest country and roi is 46th...
real GDP per capita from CIA Factbook:
RANK COUNTRY GDP - PER CAPITA (PPP) DATE OF INFORMATION
1 LIECHTENSTEIN $139,100 2009 EST.
2 QATAR $129,700 2016 EST.
3 MONACO $115,700 2015 EST.
4 LUXEMBOURG $102,000 2016 EST.
5 FALKLAND ISLANDS $96,200 2012 EST.
6 MACAU $96,100 2016 EST.
7 SINGAPORE $87,100 2016 EST.
8 BERMUDA $85,700 2013 EST.
9 ISLE OF MAN $84,600 2014 EST.
10 BRUNEI $79,700 2016 EST.
11 KUWAIT $71,300 2016 EST. 12 IRELAND $69,400 2016 EST.
20 UNITED STATES $57,300 2016 EST.
38 UNITED KINGDOM $42,500 2016 EST.
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