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It's a fool's errand to think getting out of the EU will kick out all those pesky Eastern Europeans from the UK. Look at Switzerland. They're not in the EU. Hell, they're not even EEA members; yet to be able to have favorable trade status with the EU, they had to sign the Schengen Agreement. Kicking out the Slavs and Romanians (let's be honest, this is the biggest motivator they have) won't be as easy as they think. The whole Pull out of the EU is rooted in xenophobia. They can make up whatever arguments they like, but we know 90% of the reason is that
We will have to wait and see. The UK is a much bigger proposition than Switzerland. The population of London alone is on a par with that country.
We buy far more from the EU than it does from us. You think they'll want to lose all that business?
First of all, we will have to wait and see what bone is thrown to us as a bribe. We will need to galvanise the young. The unemployed, the zero hours contracts, the people who fear no matter how they vote, nothing changes.
The Scots did it, and had a massive turnout for their independence vote.
I believe it will be done, and we will get out of the EU. The whole thing will collapse in the end anyway IMO.
The majority of the establishment will push fear tactics to try and frighten voters the sky will fall if we vote to leave. It won't.
Last edited by English Dave; 07-04-2015 at 01:59 AM..
The Swiss situation is far more complicated. Their adherence to Schengen post dates the trade deals they did with the EU including free movement of labour. As a practical matter, the Swiss did not police their land border. I lived in Geneva for several years in the 1980s and 1990s and the Swiss border guards almost never asked for a passport. They were more interested in how much butter, meat or wine we were bringing back from France. So Schengen was more cosmetic than substantive.
Economically, Switzerland has to deal with the EU. First of all, they are entirely landlocked by EU countries and second, they are an exporting economy and their biggest customer is the EU. So, although they are not formally members of the EU, in practice and like Norway, they are.
Location: Northern Ireland and temporarily England
7,668 posts, read 5,257,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
We will have to wait and see. The UK is a much bigger proposition than Switzerland. The population of London alone is on a par with that country.
We buy far more from the EU than it does from us. You think they'll want to lose all that business?
First of all, we will have to wait and see what bone is thrown to us as a bribe. We will need to galvanise the young. The unemployed, the zero hours contracts, the people who fear no matter how they vote, nothing changes.
The Scots did it, and had a massive turnout for their independence vote.
I believe it will be done, and we will get out of the EU. The whole thing will collapse in the end anyway IMO.
The majority of the establishment will push fear tactics to try and frighten voters the sky will fall if we vote to leave. It won't.
I don't think we will leave but I do think there will be a gradual decline from this point in. It was always destined to fail.
We will have to wait and see. The UK is a much bigger proposition than Switzerland. The population of London alone is on a par with that country.
We buy far more from the EU than it does from us. You think they'll want to lose all that business?
First of all, we will have to wait and see what bone is thrown to us as a bribe. We will need to galvanise the young. The unemployed, the zero hours contracts, the people who fear no matter how they vote, nothing changes.
The Scots did it, and had a massive turnout for their independence vote.
I believe it will be done, and we will get out of the EU. The whole thing will collapse in the end anyway IMO.
The majority of the establishment will push fear tactics to try and frighten voters the sky will fall if we vote to leave. It won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickandtiredofthis
I don't think we will leave but I do think there will be a gradual decline from this point in. It was always destined to fail.
We are too different.
Moderator cut: Attack the message, not the messenger
Say, what is the alternative to remaining in the EU? Should the UK just "leave"? How the hell would that work? What would the consequences be?
I will say this: even of Britain were to "get out", it would still need to/want to trade with the EU and would therefore still be beholden to its rules and regulations anyway.
On another note, Cameron's opening negotiation did not get off to a good start either..
I have to say Mag that you do tend to use intellectual bullying if there is such an expression.
I too have kept out of this thread until now, due in part to the intolerance of some to discuss this topic in a civilized way.
Undoubtedly there are economic arguments that can be bandied about and they are important but they are not necessarily the be all and end all of the debate.
Many people are very uneasy about the way this country has changed in a relatively short period of time. Not all these changes are due to our membership of the EU but some are. Many of these people will argue that we did not vote in a referendum to what now exists, indeed most people didn't even get to vote in that referendum as it was so long ago.
Many do not have an option, such as yourself, of leaving Europe to seek a life elsewhere and are seeing their daily lives affected by decisions made outside of this country.
Please have the good grace to respect other people's views even if you do not agree with them.
Last edited by Jezer; 07-04-2015 at 01:15 PM..
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