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Landlords should not be demanding citizenship papers. Employers must do it for tax purposes. Who else? Utility companies? Cell phone companies? All of this is the government's job--they know who they're taking money from and giving money to.
But landlords are (by putting a roof over people's heads) effectively allowing these immigrants to stay in this country - when it is illegal for them to do so.
But landlords are (by putting a roof over people's heads) effectively allowing these immigrants to stay in this country - when it is illegal for them to do so.
That's a long reach you're making.
If you deny people who are in the UK illegally it does not mean that they will leave. It just means they will not have access to legal housing, but there are plenty of people who will rent out a garage or similar for £20 per night per person illegally (with the cost being inflated because of risk). How is someone who has a family going to afford £100 per night without the ability to earn income legally? Denying housing without any further plan is just asking for trouble. You'd just be causing an illegal immigrant crime wave without a plan to deal with illegal immigrants denied housing.
If you deny people who are in the UK illegally it does not mean that they will leave. It just means they will not have access to legal housing, but there are plenty of people who will rent out a garage or similar for £20 per night per person illegally (with the cost being inflated because of risk). How is someone who has a family going to afford £100 per night without the ability to earn income legally? Denying housing without any further plan is just asking for trouble. You'd just be causing an illegal immigrant crime wave without a plan to deal with illegal immigrants denied housing.
It might make them think twice about coming over to the UK in the first place, knowing they are not going to be able to put a roof over their head.
Also, if they have nowhere to live, they are less likely to want to invite any large family of theirs over as well. We are not forcing them to come here and we are not forcing them to stay here either. Everyone is responsible for their own lives. If they find themselves living out on the streets - that's the risk they took by coming over here illegally.
What do you suppose we do? Should we welcome them with open arms and give them a house each? How about British people already waiting 10+ years for somewhere suitable to live?
It might make them think twice about coming over to the UK in the first place, knowing they are not going to be able to put a roof over their head.
Also, if they have nowhere to live, they are less likely to want to invite any large family of theirs over as well. We are not forcing them to come here and we are not forcing them to stay here either. Everyone is responsible for their own lives. If they find themselves living out on the streets - that's the risk they took by coming over here illegally.
What do you suppose we do? Should we welcome them with open arms and give them a house each? How about British people already waiting 10+ years for somewhere suitable to live?
I think, then, this concept would work a lot faster to get rid of them if grocery stores, farmer's markets, and restaurants were required to see your citizenship papers before selling you food. Homelessness takes so long to work.
I don't want to see anyone starving to death, from no access to food. Just like I don't want to see anyone risking their lives by coming here illegally, stuffed in lorry containers or on dodgy boats.
What I am saying is, to not make it easy to be able to be housed here - then they won't want to live here (illegally).
It might make them think twice about coming over to the UK in the first place, knowing they are not going to be able to put a roof over their head.
No it won't if you're living in a third world hell hole with the risk of being sold into slavery, killed, raped, all three and possibly in various orders. Or moving to the UK with the risk of being captured entering illegally, and having restricted options on housing, which one are you going to take?
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Originally Posted by Star10101
Also, if they have nowhere to live, they are less likely to want to invite any large family of theirs over as well. We are not forcing them to come here and we are not forcing them to stay here either. Everyone is responsible for their own lives. If they find themselves living out on the streets - that's the risk they took by coming over here illegally.
They won't have no where to live. That's like saying because drugs are illegal you can't buy them. Well newsflash, in every major city in the world you can buy drugs (I was offered cocaine and a "student" within 20 minutes of arriving in Mumbai for the first time from one of the airport porters! Both are illegal, and doubly so in Mumbai airport which is also an Indian Air Force Base). There will just spring up an illegal housing market, that will provide "expensive" housing that needs to be supported by performing jobs that pay well. If you cannot earn average money legitimately or put a roof over your head they'll earn good money illegitimately and pay a lot for that roof, and/or a massive explosion of forged passport being sold illegally.
The UK is an island, once people get there the only way to get off is to swim, pay a fare to leave, or have someone pay that fare to leave. If you push people into corners they'll respond in one of two ways, they'll submit and wind up dead somewhere, or fight back and act against the society that put them where they are. Are you prepared to have families found dead of exposure on Britains streets, and a hostile subculture of illegal immigrants who want to cause harm to the mainstream UK culture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star10101
What do you suppose we do? Should we welcome them with open arms and give them a house each? How about British people already waiting 10+ years for somewhere suitable to live?
Have I said that? No.
What I've said is that the idea is stupid, shortsighted and trying to push responsibility off onto a sector that is convenient for the government to push off onto without large amounts of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
It's also shortsighted of people to think that this will not affect them, there is currently one single solitary piece of documentation that proves UK Citizenship and right to residency, that's a passport. I personally think it's outrageous that you would need to present your passport in the UK for some service to prove you're eligible to receive that service. People who are in the UK from foreign countries legally will have the required documentation, they're going to fly through the rental process without a hitch, it's only British Nationals that are going to get nailed in addition to illegals.
If I were a Landlord or rental agent I'd want a scan of every tenants passport a record of their passport number, and any other documentation, so that if someone files a complaint I can pull the property file and give whoever is investigating evidence I performed due diligence. No passport, no rental, I wouldn't even care if someone comes up aged 90 with their original birth certificate, both parents, both sets of grand parents, and all four sets of great grandparents claiming UK residency, if they did not have a passport. Which sounds fine, until you think of life events like divorce, or getting kicked out by your partner, who may not only destroy all your suits, but changes the locks and refuses to give you anything from your original home, and house fires, floods etc. Now you're homeless, no passport (because it's not like you carry it everywhere), and need friends, family or a hotel for around a month while a new passport is issued, and then you can start looking for a new place to live.
But landlords are (by putting a roof over people's heads) effectively allowing these immigrants to stay in this country - when it is illegal for them to do so.
but they didn't let them into the country..I admit there are a lot of dubious landlords.. that's been going on for years with greed...but that's another issue, to me anyway... the government cant do enough so theirblaming or putting the onus on others...
But landlords are (by putting a roof over people's heads) effectively allowing these immigrants to stay in this country - when it is illegal for them to do so.
No, that's poor reasoning. One can only "allow them to stay" if one has the power to remove them. Landlords can't remove illegals from the UK, so it's not landlords who are "allowing" them to say. Landlords are in the same bucket as everyone else--you can't claim they are responsible for a situation they didn't cause and can't fix.
If it's illegal for them to be in the UK, then whose job is it to handle illegal actions? That's what the government is for.
but they didn't let them into the country..I admit there are a lot of dubious landlords.. that's been going on for years with greed...but that's another issue, to me anyway... the government cant do enough so theirblaming or putting the onus on others...
The government did not "let them into the country" deliberately. The government and the Border Agency do their best to prevent illegals from getting in. However, as a practical matter, you cannot seal the borders hermetically. It just isn't possible. So you have to stop those who do slip through - whether they have sneaked in on the back of a lorry or whether they are overstays - from working, from finding somewhere to live and from getting access to benefits. Those are practical measures that can be implemented and can accompanied by big fines for employers/landlords who refuse to play nice. Will it stop all illegals? No. But it might make life unpleasant enough that many choose to go elsewhere. That is effectively what France has done which is why so many are living rough in Calais and trying to get into the UK.
No, that's poor reasoning. One can only "allow them to stay" if one has the power to remove them. Landlords can't remove illegals from the UK, so it's not landlords who are "allowing" them to say. Landlords are in the same bucket as everyone else--you can't claim they are responsible for a situation they didn't cause and can't fix.
If it's illegal for them to be in the UK, then whose job is it to handle illegal actions? That's what the government is for.
Neither can employers. So are you advocating letting illegal immigrants work on the grounds that employers do not have the power to remove them?
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