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Why would someone want to live in a US style suburbia?
They are depressing, boring, they lack character, you never see anyone walking around, everyone drives because there is no public transportation. US suburbias also lack community feeling, you will never know your neighbors. Many times the only things to do in Suburbias in America is to go walk around the shopping mall because everything else is suburban and numbingly boring.
Suburbias are also one of the biggest contributor to obesity in America because people don't walk but drive, they are anti-social and people end up feeling isolated, alone and eventually develop mental issues.
This is completely true actually no matter how much Americans will disagree with you. As far as the 'walking around', as Europeans we actually did walk around through Texas suburbs and I remember the police driving by turning their heads and stare at us like we were doing something crazy. Americans just drive to a park, sit or walk around a bit, and drive back home. They never 'just' walk the streets.
It's also true there is nothing much to do except shop in the malls and eat at the food-court. I also noticed at one point that is all we were doing all the time because there just isn't much else to do. I'm glad I can live a European lifestyle again now.
There is nothing depressing about my neighborhood in a forest and people walk around all the time. The first day in this house, neighbors brought us homemade chocolate chip cookies.
It really sucks.
^^^ Exactly!
Moderator cut: Thou shalt not comment on moderator actions He made sweeping statements about anyone who lives in U.S. suburbia, claiming that they no one knows their neighbors (not true), no one walks anywhere (my neighborhood is FULL of people walking), they are all anti-social (seriously? um, no), they are all isolated (again, no) and will develop mental issues (a comment so idiotic it doesn't deserve a reply). I don't understand how all of THAT is not being rude?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro
This is completely true actually no matter how much Americans will disagree with you. As far as the 'walking around', as Europeans we actually did walk around through Texas suburbs and I remember the police driving by turning their heads and stare at us like we were doing something crazy. Americans just drive to a park, sit or walk around a bit, and drive back home. They never 'just' walk the streets.
It's also true there is nothing much to do except shop in the malls and eat at the food-court. I also noticed at one point that is all we were doing all the time because there just isn't much else to do. I'm glad I can live a European lifestyle again now.
I am flabbergasted that you continue to make these sweeping generalizations even though several U.S. posters have told you -- from our own experiences -- that they are simply not correct. Is what you are writing true about SOME places? I'm sure it is. But you are saying ALL places in the U.S. are like this, which is patently false.
(When did this thread become a let's-bash-the-USA thread? )
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To (other) UK posters: do you see "pockets" of affordability in decent areas, or has the trend been for housing prices to just keep going up, up, up? I would VASTLY prefer a small house on a large lot (in the U.S. a lot of people would prefer a larger house on a smaller lot), but I realize that would likely cost a fortune in the UK. And again, wondering about noise issues in "semi-attached" houses (what I think would be called duplexes in the U.S.).
I have never lived in a British suburb but did have school friends who lived in a suburb of Glasgow (Bearsden). It was great when we were younger because of the ability to go out to play. In the city we generally played in the street or the back lanes. In the suburb there were gardens and open spaces. Of course, there was much less traffic in those days so the street wasn't so bad. However, when my friends hit their teens, they all wanted to come to my flat (i.e. my parent's flat) in town because there was nothing to do in the suburb where they lived. My memory was that it was a long walk to the bus and the shops in the suburbs.
When I lived in the New York area we did live in a suburb because the price differential between a small flat in Manhattan and a decent sized town house was just crazy (this was 1999, so think $350k compared to $1 million and that is before monthly charges and parking fees). That, of course, is the real life reason why a lot of people move to the suburbs.
We lived in a gated community where the town houses were arranged on three sides of a square. There was also a clubhouse, tennis courts and a pool. It was very nice and had everything you need for social living. Sadly, we knew relatively few of our neighbours. First, because nobody really walked around the community. Second, there were very few social events at the clubhouse. Third, because with a long commute into work every day, most people went home to eat and sleep and, fourth, a lot of people who had grown up in the New York area already had family and friends and didn't really need to socialize with newcomers.
On the other hand, the small Arizona town where I live now is far more social. First, a lot of people come here to retire and don't have family or friends around so they are more open to making new friends. Second, they are retired so not working and have more time. Third, the town is smaller so you run into people at the post office or supermarket much more. Even so, everyone drives. Strangely, they will go on a 8 mile hike but drive 500 yards to pick up their mail at the community mailboxes.
Anyway, architectural styles notwithstanding, I'm not sure that there is a huge difference between British suburbs and American ones. Clearly suburban living suits some and not others. That doesn't make it right or wrong. It is simply a choice and the more choices we all have the better.
To (other) UK posters: do you see "pockets" of affordability in decent areas, or has the trend been for housing prices to just keep going up, up, up? I would VASTLY prefer a small house on a large lot (in the U.S. a lot of people would prefer a larger house on a smaller lot), but I realize that would likely cost a fortune in the UK. And again, wondering about noise issues in "semi-attached" houses (what I think would be called duplexes in the U.S.).
I'm not really a UK poster but I am a UK/US citizen and one of our options as we get older is a move back to the UK.
Our view now, as we get into our 60s, is that the next move needs to be to a nice flat (i.e. low maintenance, no garden, no stairs) with a lift/elevator, within easy walking distance of at least one supermarket ... edit: and a nice pub .... (because there will come a point when we are no longer fit to drive) and in a medium sized town with good health care, infrastructure, public transport and other services.
From what I can see, in the UK, affordability is largely a function of distance from London or Edinburgh. I could easily buy a good sized flat in the West End of Glasgow (highly desirable area) and have a chunk of change left over from selling my house here.
The southern US (and probably many areas of the midwest) are still chock full of spacious, affordable housing in many midsize metro areas that also have low unemployment. Suburban living is plentiful for those who want it, and well within reach of most families and individuals.
Believe it or not, life in the southern and midwest US can be very pleasant and fulfilling. Besides the fact that "life is what you make it," thousands and thousands of perfectly normal and well balanced people love the culture of the south and midwest.
Sign me up, hahaha. Can we get more of that that in Canada?
Why would someone want to live in a US style suburbia?
They are depressing, boring, they lack character, you never see anyone walking around, everyone drives because there is no public transportation. US suburbias also lack community feeling, you will never know your neighbors. Many times the only things to do in Suburbias in America is to go walk around the shopping mall because everything else is suburban and numbingly boring.
Suburbias are also one of the biggest contributor to obesity in America because people don't walk but drive, they are anti-social and people end up feeling isolated, alone and eventually develop mental issues.
These are the same things people complain about here, and I would imagine the UK as well. I agree that better planning is necessary, but we can't fit everyone in our city centres. There needs to be more realistic, sustainable planning that is based on more things like walkability, access to amenities, than just corporate profits. Obesity is not a strictly American problem. Similar rates are found here in Canada and much of Europe as well. I think the suburban lifestyle contributes, but it doesn't have to. Give people realistic options besides driving to and from work and they will take them.
These are the same things people complain about here, and I would imagine the UK as well. I agree that better planning is necessary, but we can't fit everyone in our city centres. There needs to be more realistic, sustainable planning that is based on more things like walkability, access to amenities, than just corporate profits. Obesity is not a strictly American problem. Similar rates are found here in Canada and much of Europe as well. I think the suburban lifestyle contributes, but it doesn't have to. Give people realistic options besides driving to and from work and they will take them.
Well Canada is also relatively suburban. Canadian cities do not really resemble European, Asian or Latin American cities which tend to be walkable, people oriented. Canadian cities follow the north American sprawling suburban model, also found in Australia.
Take a stroll on google maps around Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver and you will find that outside the city centers these cities tend to be also quite spread out.
Obesity is not an epidemic problem here in Europe (as of yet). Our population is still relatively slim (Still) and I doubt obesity will ever become epidemic here, that is due to the European cultural eating habits where home made meals are the norm as opposed to restaurant dining with massive portions which is so common in North America.
Europeans also ride more bikes and grow up taking public transportation so that becomes the norm to people here. While in North America there is even a stigma with taking public transportation and walking is very rare in most cities outside places like NYC or San Francisco.
The UK is not likely to have North American style suburban models, because the UK is a tightly packed small island. Even the deep countryside especially in Southern England is already relatively suburban. The UK has one of the highest populations of density on the planet. So have mega suburban sprawls like they occur in North America is simply not a possibility.
The two different models of cities we're talking about here are the European/Asian/Latin American model versus the North America/Australian one.
One has a thriving down town, the downtowns are dense and then you have surrounding neighborhoods with dense population, mostly condos and homes without giant yards, with plenty of green spaces.... all of it linked by metro, bus, train, etc.
The north America/Aussie model is more of a downtown mostly used for businesses, and then suburban sprawls connected by highways,sometimes trains. On this model, the industrial areas of the city tend to be buffer zones between the downtown and the suburbs. While in the Eu/Lat Am/Asian model the industrial areas are found AFTER the suburbs outside the city.
Urban planners however especially in North America itself, argue that the north American model of city is not sustainable in long term because it is very expensive and demands a lot of resources taking up countless miles of natural habitat.
In urban planning there is a term called Atlantification, it means cities that are very spread out with no public transportation, and really bad crowded highways connecting all of the areas of the city. (like Atlanta is)
This is completely true actually no matter how much Americans will disagree with you. As far as the 'walking around', as Europeans we actually did walk around through Texas suburbs and I remember the police driving by turning their heads and stare at us like we were doing something crazy. Americans just drive to a park, sit or walk around a bit, and drive back home. They never 'just' walk the streets.
It's also true there is nothing much to do except shop in the malls and eat at the food-court. I also noticed at one point that is all we were doing all the time because there just isn't much else to do. I'm glad I can live a European lifestyle again now.
Yeah I remember I lived in LA and wanted to take the bus, or metro due to the fact I didn't want to spend hours sitting in traffic, and I was told by the locals "are you crazy? public transportation is so dangerous!" for a European this concept of public transportation having a stigma is quite bizarre I say.
It's also quite shocking to see virtually no people walking around, everyone is inside their cars and everything is so spread out, sometimes just going to the supermarket becomes an impossible task if you do not have a car to take you there.
And that is Southern California which is one of the most densely populated areas in the US. Imagine how it must be in less dense cities like Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Raleigh, Phoenix, Denver etc. which are truly suburban sprawls for the most!
Europeans also ride more bikes and grow up taking public transportation so that becomes the norm to people here. While in North America there is even a stigma with taking public transportation and walking is very rare in most cities outside places like NYC or San Francisco.
And Chicago. Europeans always forget about Chicago.
In spite of far-flung suburbs, here are some U.S. cities where people walk around a lively downtown:
Seattle, WA
Portland, OR
San Francisco, CA
Denver, CO
Boise, ID
Minneapolis, MN
Boston, MA
New York, NY
Burlington, VT
Charleston, SC
Greenville, SC (there is a natural waterfall downtown!)
Savannah, GA
San Antonio, TX
Austin, TX
Chicago, IL
Kansas City, MO
Asheville, NC
Chattanooga, TN
Santa Monica, CA
Pittsburgh, PA
Evanston, IL
Lincoln, NE
Charlottesville, VA
Alexandria, VA
Boulder, CO
Salt Lake City, UT
Indianapolis, IN
There are also countless small towns with lively Main Streets if that's your thing.
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