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when we joined or should I say our political leaders signed us up to "the common market" without our say so, it was under the understanding that it was for trade and trade only, the political element didn't come in until about 1990 under John Major's time, that was when we realised that we had been lied to, that the EU wanted a "united states of Europe" with all nation states done away with, no more United Kingdom, just a country called Europe. for a patriotic Englishman that was the final straw.
Yep, I watched the video of the EU's deputy negotiator. She was very clear. Theresa May needs to go to the EU, tell them the backstop has to go.
BUT how do you axe the backstop if even the WTO requires checks and balances? In order for people to trade and invest there needs to be some clarity from one regulatory system to another - so it can't just "go".
For me if "nothing is agreed until all is agreed" and if an exit clause to the backstop that's legally binding is added even if its after an extensive period of time, I would be willing to back the deal and most MPs seem to be in agreement of this.
May's deal is a non starter as it involves a customs union, and that under EU rules would stop us making trade deals with non EU countries, so it will be like we are out of the EU but still ruled by the EU, so May's deal has to go. I thought it had but she's still flogging it.
May's deal is a non starter as it involves a customs union, and that under EU rules would stop us making trade deals with non EU countries, so it will be like we are out of the EU but still ruled by the EU, so May's deal has to go. I thought it had but she's still flogging it.
Really? I thought that was just during the transition period until 31st December 2022 and finally there would be a UK-wide customs union with mainly independent but close alignment to the EU regulatory system?
Simon Coveney, foreign minister of Ireland claims the DUP is not the only view in N.Ireland and that the rest are not represented in Westminster. However, to my knowledge the opposition in N.Ireland have their seats in Westminster but choose not to take them up in protest. So he's basically blaming the UK government for a privilege the UK government offers the N.Irish opposition but decide not to represent themselves and the interests of the people they represent in the country they're currently a part of. Right! Okey-dokey.
...You are right in Theresa is wasting her time even bothering to go to the EU leadership any more. I guess it's just so she can say she tried, and they refuse to listen.
I suppose that is probably her reason. She is faced with a big "No" wherever she turns, whatever she proposes and re-proposes. I don't think she could get a "Yes" at any point now, and the only way is to plunge out. Regrettable for all the countries and their people.
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As an American, you seem to feel you know more about what's going on in England than I do. You don't seem to grasp the anger felt in many parts of my country. You dismiss it as ultra-nationalist hysteria, or pure jackassery, as you put it.
I have lived in the EU for 20 years, to one degree or another surrounded by Brits or with Brits in my circle of friends and acquaintances (many live there and here.) My best friend and his wife are Brits. I spend more time reading UK newspapers and looking at the BBC than I ever do at American news sources. My mothers family are of NI Protestant origin, my father's Catholics from the south of Ireland, which has been a long term feedback of another kind. And the UK forum in C-D is an interesting source because it is real people living there (for the most part.)
Do I know more than you, no my feet on not on that ground. However, there is no way I can possibly avoid hearing - if not actively listening - the conversation of Brits. Or in following events there out of both curiosity and self-interest. I had a financial investment in the UK, which is another consideration. And the smaller concerns about those three UK firms with whom I have consistently purchased personal products for the last fifteen years.
I have close to no interest in the US, except as it affects the greater world. But to some degree I have the UK foisted on me just by sitting down with Brits here, but having said that, it is clearly in my interest - particularly under the present circumstances - to know what is happening there. Thus my status as an "outsider" is dubious vis a vis the current situation. I am not a Brit, but what the UK does will have great impact on the EU, and, thus, on myself.
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I ask you, as an outsider, when is enough, enough in this small island? How many more immigrants do you think we can absorb? The population is growing at an alarming rate. What is it now 65 million? How about 80 million? 90 million? When is it enough?...
An aspect that is always side-stepped in this is the steady stream of immigrants from your former colonies, and these take advantage of your welfare benefits like they were a sugar teat, and this is not something that EU people do, they go there to work. And if I am to believe my British friends these same people are the source of much of your crime problems, and not the EU migrants. This is something that seems to be quietly walked around. But as my best friend, a Brit, says - those problems will still be there EU or no EU, and when are we going to turn off their water.
no a lot of these migrants are not from the EU but they come THROUGH the EU to get to England where the welfare benefits are, they come ILLEGALLY through Europe, they are supposed to stop at the first SAFE country but they don't, they then travel across the English Channel in flimsy rubber boats supplied by the people traffickers and get into difficulty and its our ships that have to save them from drowning, if they make it in one piece without being picked up they disappear into the larger immigrant community.
and they aren't coming from what used to be the colonies, they are coming from places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and many from Africa.
unfortunately unlike mexico we cant build a wall in the middle of the English Channel.
An aspect that is always side-stepped in this is the steady stream of immigrants from your former colonies, and these take advantage of your welfare benefits like they were a sugar teat, and this is not something that EU people do, they go there to work.
Whilst you're not completely wrong, you'd be surprised to know how many Poles and Portuguese have social housing and benefits not to mention the recent admission of Romania and Bulgaria whose populations do seek these benefits.
The one major point is that Britain has sole control of this immigration they could turn off the taps tomorrow if they wished but there's also the argument that the UK plundered these countries so these "breadcrumbs" were not a major strain to ensure Commonwealth relations and influence especially pre-2007 financial crisis where resources may have been strained but money could be allocated to ease those.
The same is not so for the EU and in light of the migrant crisis (Thank you George Bush) and German nationality acquisition, this has become more pertinent.
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Originally Posted by kevxu
And if I am to believe my British friends these same people are the source of much of your crime problems, and not the EU migrants. This is something that seems to be quietly walked around.
This is true although whilst these communities must take responsibility for this there is also the aspect that these people were invited to fill low skilled jobs, faced substantial discriminatory challenges, were economically in the lower strata and there was a void of the British immigrant identity that was unfortunately filled by the hyper-visibility of US-American gangster rap culture across the pond especially during the knife crime epidemic of the early 2000's and now we're experiencing this yet again OR filled by the more covert Wahhabism emanating from Saudi Arabian "investment" and other radical ideologies which were exacerbated after the Iraq war.
However, the main threat to British identity is the archaic radical muslim ideology which is a threat not only for the UK but the entire world.
Simon Coveney, foreign minister of Ireland claims the DUP is not the only view in N.Ireland and that the rest are not represented in Westminster. However, to my knowledge the opposition in N.Ireland have their seats in Westminster but choose not to take them up in protest. So he's basically blaming the UK government for a privilege the UK government offers the N.Irish opposition but decide not to represent themselves and the interests of the people they represent in the country they're currently a part of. Right! Okey-dokey.
NI is a tribal society. The DUP only represent one tribe, not the other.
The Good Friday Agreement basically recognizes these 2 tribal divisions and created a framework for a power-sharing arrangement between them. Sinn Fein represent the other tribe but they don't take seats in the Westminister because they would have to swear an oath of allegience to the Queen. Drop the oath and maybe they would?
It's a policy Sinn Fein have observed since their foundation.
NI is a tribal society. The DUP only represent one tribe, not the other.
The Good Friday Agreement basically recognizes these 2 tribal divisions and created a framework for a power-sharing arrangement between them. Sinn Fein represent the other tribe but they don't take seats in the Westminister because they would have to swear an oath of allegience to the Queen. Drop the oath and maybe they would?
It's a policy Sinn Fein have observed since their foundation.
Well then they don't have representation out of ideology and choice. So Coveney's signalling is baseless as every opportunity to voice that view has been given by the UK government.
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Right! Okey-dokey.
