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I think Kilburn (London ?) is very much an Irish RC area. There is a poem about a man from Ulster going there but not feeling part of it.
While the big majority of Irish get on with life it must be remembered during the IRA bombing campaign on the UK mainland they were sheltered by some Irish people. They hadn't far to run for shelter.
Think the question to ask is, do THEY see themselves as British. Celtic supporters wave the Irish tricolour despite having lived in Scotland for many years. I have seen Irish tricolours at some English football matches.
From my experience, the vast majority of Irish people have fully integrated into UK society to the extent that one or two generations later you would not know that they were ever Irish.
You do however have the 'plastic paddys', most of whom have never lived in Ireland and who are more 'Irish' than Irish people living in Ireland. They are the ones to be found at Celtic Park waving the tricolour.
Think the question to ask is, do THEY see themselves as British. Celtic supporters wave the Irish tricolour despite having lived in Scotland for many years. I have seen Irish tricolours at some English football matches.
I've already mentioned that in my post that some Irish immigrants in Scotland didn't integrate particularly very well and hence why some of them have clung onto their Irishness. I do think they bare the brunt of responsibility of some of their lack of integration.
However it does work both ways as we said, my question was how many would refuse to consider people of Irish backgrounds born and raised in the UK as being properly British?
I have read in my time that there are certain loyalist elements in the UK who do seemingly think like this. No "fenian blood" in our British veins openly stating they would never let their kids date people of significant Irish ancestry in the UK, these guys are pretty extreme obviously but they do exist and my question was in what numbers do these people exist? Are they common in the UK? Do a lot of people in England have reservations dating/marrying people of Irish backgrounds? In Northern Ireland mixed marriages are quite rare so maybe its like that across the water I was thinking?
Are those born and raised in England to Irish parents generally seen as fake brits?
I think Kilburn (London ?) is very much an Irish RC area. There is a poem about a man from Ulster going there but not feeling part of it.
Is Kilburn still an Irish area? The ROI born population of mainland UK stands at 380,000 today, in 2001 it was 540,000 IIRC, then around 400,000 in 2011. I'm pretty sure it was up near a million about 50 years ago.
Migration from Ireland has pretty much come to a halt and a lot of the Irish born population in the UK is beginning to die off, "white irish" ethnicity was the oldest ethnicity in the 2011 census with most of the respondents being over 50.
So if Kilburn is still Irish it isn't going to be for much longer as other immigrant groups will start to take over.
Sharpshooter, what was wrong with Brits of Irish ancestry sending their kids to Catholic schools? Are Protestant schools better?
Sending your kids to schools which are likely to be populated with lots of other kids of Irish backgrounds, thus primarily socialising with children of Irish backgrounds forming "communities" etc is not the best way to integrate, I'm not a fan of that. For me, the onus is on the immigrants to integrate into the host nations culture.
Having said, my question, which I'm trying to get an answer to, are people of Irish descent in the UK generally accepted as British? Or is there a hesitation by British to accept those of Irish descent as 'proper Brits' so to speak?
Sending your kids to schools which are likely to be populated with lots of other kids of Irish backgrounds, thus primarily socialising with children of Irish backgrounds forming "communities" etc is not the best way to integrate, I'm not a fan of that. For me, the onus is on the immigrants to integrate into the host nations culture.
So you're not a fan of Jewish or Muslim schools either?
Is Kilburn still an Irish area? The ROI born population of mainland UK stands at 380,000 today, in 2001 it was 540,000 IIRC, then around 400,000 in 2011. I'm pretty sure it was up near a million about 50 years ago.
Migration from Ireland has pretty much come to a halt and a lot of the Irish born population in the UK is beginning to die off, "white irish" ethnicity was the oldest ethnicity in the 2011 census with most of the respondents being over 50.
So if Kilburn is still Irish it isn't going to be for much longer as other immigrant groups will start to take over.
I really don't know. I was thinking back to that poem which was written not long after the Anglo-Irish Diktat which portrayed an Ulsterman in Kilburn and not feeling a part of it. In fact I think he was a 'lost soul' and didn't feel part of anywhere he went.
I got a bit mixed up about the poem. It speaks of Kentish Town and the London Irish.
An Ulster Unionist Walks the Streets of London
All that Friday There was no flag
No Union Jack No tricolour
on the governor’s mansion.
I waited outside the governor’s mansion.
I waited outside the gate-lodge, waited like a dog in my own province till a policeman brought me a signed paper.Was I meant to beg and be grateful? I sat on the breakfast-shuttle and I called
I called out loud
To the three Hebrew children For I know at this time There is neither prince, prophet, nor leader
There is no power We can call our own.I grabbed a fast black ack, I caught a taxi
to Kentish Town, then walked the streets like a half-foreigner among the London Irish. What does it feel like? I wanted to ask them what does it feel like
to be a child of that nation?’
(PAULIN, p. 42, 1987)
In order to understand this poem, it is important to set the context in which Tom Paulin has grown up and has been influenced
Protestants are the majority in Ulster and most of them are Unionists. They argue that they have a distinctive culture and the right to preserve it. They also support the continuing status of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom for they believe they are more British than Irish.
Lol, noooo. It hasn't been a "Irish area" since the early ninties.
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