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US has been in decline for a long time, whilst the uk has been going up for donkies years and wont stop anytime soon. Just look at how you support lone mothers but yet fail to put the money where its really needed. Education!!
At least the US tackles it head on and coughs up the dough, what does the pathetic uk government and society do?? "you just keep banging it in johnny, we (social welfare) will cover it"
Borring and uncreative of doing things, as expected
I`m still waiting for someone to tell me why figures are at the same level, and rising, as the UK. When it looks from the quote like there is such a marvellous and forward thinking system in the US.
How are teenage Mothers housed?? Do they get Welfare?? Are they encouraged into work when the youngest child reaches school age??
QUOTE:
"A lot of these teenagers are seing this as an alternative in getting a better life (lone mother, welfare supported) when society adopts that mindset, i ask you. Is that the way to go??
In the mean time, you're having to recruit from afar to fill in the jobs that a would be english/scotts/welsh could have done, had they been qualified.
How does that benefit britland in the long run?? "
The simple answer to that is it doesn`t. It is simply a case of short term economics. Training places for nurses etc have been cut not only by this government but succesive governments. The thinking is " Why spend money training our own population when we can "STEAL" ready trained people from developing countries". Stealing is what it is. It leaves developing countries desperately short of skilled workers, and dooms many of our own to hold on to anything that comes along. For many it certainly isn`t an alternative. It is simply all there is for them. For all the wonderful sounding rhetoric from ministers, they know it pays to keep many of these people on the scrap heap that has been built for them...
As a tax payer I am more than happy to pay for people who need help or are vulnerable. There but for the grace of God go I. We are all potential victims of poverty and destitution and I wish some people would find a tad of compassion and empathy towards the less fortunate.
Yes there will always be a small minority of people who abuse the system , but I'm willing to take those chances so that nobody is left to die because they can't afford healthcare or a roof over their heads. I wish some people would get of their sanctimonious high horses and grow up a bit.
My experience is that people who are so generous are typically most generous with other people's funds. People here who pay the least taxes seem to parade the claim of being a "generous taxpayer" with great pride... However, they're also the people who benefit the most from the system and have the least aspirations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINCOLNSHIRE
I`m still waiting for someone to tell me why figures are at the same level, and rising, as the US...
I think it's cultural here. Parents have the 16/17yr old girls at the daycare raising their children during the day... Television, starring Britney Spears' out-of-wedlock, pregnant teenage sister raising them in the evening... boys raised to think sexual conquest is good, girls searching for their approval participating and MTV saying it's alright... In the end, no one believes there is ever going to be consequences.
As far as I'm aware, they get welfare-- they pretty much choose where they live and the state pays and the government feeds them so that they can bring up more upstanding citizens enthralled with everything they deserve without working...
During Clinton's administration, there was significant welfare reform that forced women to get to work after a certain period of time. I don't know how that's working out; I really don't keep up. I'd be happy enough if it was all handled by the churches again.
US has been in decline for a long time, whilst the uk has been going up for donkies years and wont stop anytime soon. Just look at how you support lone mothers but yet fail to put the money where its really needed. Education!!
At least the US tackles it head on and coughs up the dough, what does the pathetic uk government and society do?? "you just keep banging it in johnny, we (social welfare) will cover it"
Borring and uncreative of doing things, as expected
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Thousand
As far as I'm aware, they get welfare-- they pretty much choose where they live and the state pays and the government feeds them so that they can bring up more upstanding citizens enthralled with everything they deserve without working...
During Clinton's administration, there was significant welfare reform that forced women to get to work after a certain period of time. I don't know how that's working out; I really don't keep up. I'd be happy enough if it was all handled by the churches again.
Thanks for that..Not much differant to here then. Certainly makes me wonder about Gracie`s comments on how much better things are in the US...Seems they aren`t after all and the problem is universal.....
My experience is that people who are so generous are typically most generous with other people's funds. People here who pay the least taxes seem to parade the claim of being a "generous taxpayer" with great pride... However, they're also the people who benefit the most from the system and have the least aspirations.
I think it's cultural here. Parents have the 16/17yr old girls at the daycare raising their children during the day... Television, starring Britney Spears' out-of-wedlock, pregnant teenage sister raising them in the evening... boys raised to think sexual conquest is good, girls searching for their approval participating and MTV saying it's alright... In the end, no one believes there is ever going to be consequences.
As far as I'm aware, they get welfare-- they pretty much choose where they live and the state pays and the government feeds them so that they can bring up more upstanding citizens enthralled with everything they deserve without working...
During Clinton's administration, there was significant welfare reform that forced women to get to work after a certain period of time. I don't know how that's working out; I really don't keep up. I'd be happy enough if it was all handled by the churches again.
Actually as a middle class person I am one of hit the most by taxes and no loopholes for me either. And I would NEVER take advantage of them even if I could. I despise tax evasion and loopholes with my very being. Nobody likes paying taxes but I see it as a necessary "evil". Taxes IMO are fine if you get a lot for your money. Britain IMO is no way as efficient as other Nations in Europe but still at least if offers a minimum security social net for those people who need it.
As for aspirations I studied at Yale and got 2 Mscs in Archaelogy and Anthropology, a Ba in Sociology and one in comparative French and English literature too so I wouldn't say I am exactly lacking in that department.
I studied and worked very hard until I was hit by long term illness and even though I could claim some benefits available to me I claim none because I feel we are not in need of them enough . I benefit nothing from the system as you call it.
I have seen enough misery and poverty around the world and I realise that not all of it self-made . In fact very , very little is. Most of it is due to very complex issues, and a lot of it due to the way we all behave as human beings, consumers, employers etc.. The vast majority of social ills can be attributed to purely the way life works out. Being poor or in a vulnerable position cannot be attributed to just being stupid or lazy.
For that reason I believe people like myself who are doing OK have a duty of care towards others who do not have had the same opportunities or life chances I have had.
And yes I reiterate as a tax payer I GLADLY pay taxes because I believe a society can never be truly civilised until it looks after the poor, the sick and the vulnerable. Do I like paying taxes. No. But I accept them as something which helps people who need it most.
Being poor , sick or destitute is not a crime. Sometimes life happens and not all people can get themselves out of it with simple will. Some do. A lot do not.
I also feel that purely from a selfish point of view a society which deals better with its poor is usually a more stable one for all of us. Poverty and desperation and urban decay create desperate people and desperate people do desperate things.
I do not condone or excuse bad behaviour but I will not apologise either for feeling that we should behave with compassion and empathy towards others and treat them with dignity.
But thank you for making a lot of assumptions about me whom you know nothing about. I am so grateful that in Europe we tend to look at other human beings in a different way than many Americans do.
UK 2005 teenage pregnancies per capita: 42.3 per 1000 Teenage pregnancy: Department for Education and Skills (http://findoutmore.dfes.gov.uk/2005/08/teenage_pregnan.html - broken link)
US 2006 teenage pregnancies per capita: 41.9 per 1000 Teen Birth Rate Rises in U.S., Reversing a 14-Year Decline - washingtonpost.com
Yes a huge differance indeed..
I really was hoping our government could learn something from the US on this. As Gracie says "At least the US tackles it head on and coughs up the dough," and of course Education. If with this concerted effort,and throwing money at it, figures are little different to the UK, and are rising, then what is the solution??
Or more to the point, apart from the obvious, what are the causes??
It`s been mentioned single Mothers in the UK have preferential treatment when it came to social housing. What is the situation in the US?? I imagine, but don`t know, that many live with parents as part of extended families. If that`s the case then there is no real gain to be made. I am genuinely interested in the US system for dealing with housing etc for teenage mothers. Maybe someone could enlighten me....
There is a huge difference. The U.S has almost 6 times more people than Britain does. The U.S percentage per 1,000 is even lower than the 60 or so million people's of britain. The teen birth rates in U.K are astronomical.
There is a huge difference. The U.S has almost 6 times more people than Britain does. The U.S percentage per 1,000 is even lower than the 60 or so million people's of britain. The teen birth rates in U.K are astronomical.
I`m afraid you have the better of me there. Would you care to explain your conclusion?? I have always lived with the assumption that per capita figures were a matter of basic maths. Per 1000 is just that. Let`s do a simple conversion to % figures.
UK 4.23 % of teens and US 4.19% of teens become pregnant. As you point out there is a large difference in the populations, but all that tells us is far more US teenagers become pregnant. Population size is irrelevant when per capita or % figures are used..
Since there have been an influx of illegals into the US of recent times 20+million i believe the figure is. Im guessing, this could be a factor with the rise, many of those illegals have very poor status in the US not to mention "Anchor babies".
Since there have been an influx of illegals into the US of recent times 20+million i believe the figure is. Im guessing, this could be a factor with the rise, many of those illegals have very poor status in the US not to mention "Anchor babies".
That`s very plausible. We have similar problems here, but on a lesser scale, with Eastern Europeans. It has been proved that some schools would have closed, through lack of pupils, without them. We have one in Lincoln that was listed for closure and then saved. It was even suggested recently that some maternity wings on hospitals had been reprieved because of the influx. How many teenage pregnancies among them I wouldn`t know. But walking around there seem to be alot of prampushers using languages other than English. I have to assume they are no less promiscuous than the rest..
That`s very plausible. We have similar problems here, but on a lesser scale, with Eastern Europeans. It has been proved that some schools would have closed, through lack of pupils, without them. We have one in Lincoln that was listed for closure and then saved. It was even suggested recently that some maternity wings on hospitals had been reprieved because of the influx. How many teenage pregnancies among them I wouldn`t know. But walking around there seem to be alot of prampushers using languages other than English. I have to assume they are no less promiscuous than the rest..
Teen pregnancy seems more evident in American lower class people. How true is this in Britain?
I don`t think teenage pregnancy recognises class divisions, but I`d hazard a well informed guess that abortion rates are higher among middle class families...
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