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Hello out there...I'm looking to take advantage of some the expertise and experience that I've read on many of the threads on this site.
I currently reside in Oklahoma, and my fiance is Welsh. He's already been approved for his US visa, and then I decided I wanted to move to the UK.
I've been to the UK twice, and fell in love with the people, the culture, the museums, the countryside, and of course the access to history. I've read some postings on other site's about the stiff coldness of the British people, but I found them to be completely opposite. I found them to be warm, witty, and very welcoming during my visits. BUT, I don't live there yet...I realize vacation observations aren't always the best to judge by!
Oklahoma is Oklahoma...need I really say more? We're the buckle of the bible belt, especially the city I reside in. I've never felt that I belonged here. I possess a liberal mind in a highly conservative State. Needless to say I've felt very isolated living in this State my whole life. For it to be such a "Christian" State, I've found the people here to be very narrow minded, bigoted, lacking in sense of humor, and hypocritical. For instance...and, I've sadly heard this statement more than once from my fellow neighbors... "Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath on such an evil city...if New Orleans didn't continue to celebrate Mardi Gras...those kind of things wouldn't have happened to them." I've heard similar statements about China's earthquakes. Global warming is a fictional myth brought about through demonized scientists who's in league with the devil trying to prevent Christians from realizing God's messages of wrath. I WISH I WAS BEING SARCASTIC!!!!!
Needless to say, I don't talk to many people here. I've tried, but believe me it gets scary!!! I've actually had the evil ways of Athiest's books left on my desk, only because my co-workers know I don't attend church. Apparently one cannot possess spirituality without a tithe to the church backing it.
OKAY SORRY!!!! TIME FOR ME TO GET TO THE POINT...
My man lives in Wales (beautiful), in the Rhonnda Valleys (Not so beautiful). Those of you who live in the UK, I'm sure realize the economic struggle that the Rhonnda's confronted since the loss of the coal mining industry back in the 80's. THERE'S NO JOBS! And, if you do find one, they pay NOTHING. From what I've researched ...the area's basically dominated by jobs for low skilled workers at (of course) a low wage.
To put things in perspective...my fiance worked over 384 hours overtime last year, and his yearly earnings for that year was GROSS 19,930 pounds. Which, he considers to be good money, and looking through job postings in the area...I can see how he would think that. But, it definately doesn't compensate the cost of living there. The average Welsh housing has increased 209% in the last ten years. And, as of 2005 the cost of the average house was 145,000 pounds! When figuring in the cost of petrol, 17% VAT, and everything else...I don't see how we'd make it?!?!?
So now that I've bashed Oklahoma, allow me to fluff it up a bit. The city I live in was listed as one of the top five best cities to live in the States. In 2006 Forbes listed it as the second top growing economy in the US. Our property values are lower than most all states...which translates as getting a REALLY nice house ..WITH LOTS OF LAND for CHEAP. I wouldn't say that I earn a great wage, but my wage alone would be more than he and I would both earn combined in the UK. (That's IF I could get a job). Grandit mine is in dollars, and his is in pounds...so he see's nine pounds an hour as $18.00 per hour...so he thinks he makes more. But, 9 pounds an hour is still 9 pounds an hour in the UK...with UK cost of living rates. There are cooks at fast food places in my city that makes $9.00 an hour and we have a cheaper cost of living. 2005 Average cost of house in Oklahoma $112,000.
He argues that we have to pay for healthcare here. But, I've read that the health and the NHS isn't so great in Wales (Valleys). Both of his brothers have past away. One at the age of 13 to anorexia (early 1980's) while he'd been in the hospital for weeks, and the other took a drug overdose..called the ambulence..they rescued him in time..he was alive, and then the nurse left him..he stopped breathing, and past away that night. The fact that both of his brothers past away while under hospital care, doesn't give me a lot of faith in the Welsh NHS.
But, if I were to move there...HE WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE MOVE FROM THE VALLEY'S TO CARDIFF! I love Cardiff! I've read about this on other threads, and Michael is very much this way...he completely believes that you're stuck with your lot in life...to try to advance is not being "realistic." And, those of you who are American or who have lived in America know that our mentality is completely opposite. So, it's VERY hard for me to understand that about him.
He can't seem to grasp that jobs in other areas of the UK will pay to accommodate (somewhat) the cost of living in those areas. And, nothing I say to him, or evidence I show him proves to him any different than what he thinks he already knows. What it truly is, is that he loves those Valley's. His family is there, and if we're to move there...he doesn't want to be away from his home. Which, REALLY SUCKS for me! Sorry, blatant, tactless, and perhaps a bit selfish...but still true!
I've always wanted, yearned, dreamed, and desired the opportunity to get the heck out of this State, and move abroad..especially to the UK. I finally have the opportunity, and he has to live in the ONE AND ONLY area of the UK I didn't like...and he has the flexiblity of a steel post concerning moving away from it.
Being stuck there myself, my job opportunities will be limited at best..so I'm taking myself from a situation where though I'm unhappy living in this state...I'm financially better off, to a situation where I'd be unhappy living there with little to no finances. So, I'm trying to figure out which is the lesser of the two evils.
I've read several threads on here discussing that it all boils down to what our individual opinion of "quality of life" is. And, I COMPLETELY AGREE! I've been spoiled to a certain lifestyle, and I'll freely admit that. I'm used to the 24 hour stores, and the huge selections for cheap prices. I used to buying what I want, when I want. I'm used to living SPACIOUSLY in a nice home, and driving a nice car. And, I think with increasing prices Americans are going to have to change many of our ways...and that the life I currently live on my wage...is fastly fading as prices continue to rise.
Like most people I see the good and the bad of both decisions. Unless you want to go to Walmart, Church, or see a country music artist ..Oklahoma culture is limited. I love LOVE celtic music, and love the idea of the festivals there. I LOVE history having wanted to be an archaeologist all my life, so it's easy to imagine how the history of the UK has captivated my heart and soul. But, I also love sunshine and violent thunderstorms that raddle the house at night. I love working and having my own money, and providing a decent contribution to our household. My company offers me sixteen days off a year currently, and that total will grow with my employment. I have 401K AND a pension plan provided by the company that I'll lose if I move. I get nice phat bonuses that are 10% of my earnings every year. Michael get's a 50 pound Christmas bonus (if he's lucky...they bypassed it last year).
There are so many things that I love and dislike about both decisions. And, I can't make up my fricking mind!!!! Michael's torn as well. This decision would be so much easier if he'd be willing to move out of the valley's to another location in the UK. But, as it is he's looking into us a renting a cracker box to live in for 280 pounds or less a month. Realistically...those of you from the UK know what can be rented at 200 -280 pounds per month that's not a flatshare! I keep telling him that the two of us just starting out in a new marriage cannot live in a studio apartment...especially with him working 6am-6pm two days and 6pm -6am two days of the week...we'd kill each other before the first month was complete!
I don't know if I'm mosly venting on here or what?!?! I know I'm both terrified and frustrated that I'll make the wrong decision either way. I'm terrified of missing out on a great opportunity due to being a spoiled American, and terrified of sacrificing everything I've worked to build here to ultimately hate it there. I'm thirty two years old, not twenty-one. I've built a career, and have collected nice things over the years. I've grown accustomed to a certain standard of life, and it's as easy for me to just throw that away as it would've been if I were younger and more carefree. Jobs like on the one I currently have don't come around everyday, and I've worked very hard to earn the promotion I currently have, and there's so much room to grow more within my company. The potential for within company growth in the Welsh valley's is stagnant.
I haven't slept in weeks worrying over this, and could use the guidance of some people who have been through this. I really need to hear good things about the Valley's if that's at all possible?!?!?!?!?
Thank you in advance for reading all this. I'm pouring my soul out to seek some level of relief. If I've offended anyone..I apologize in advance!
Sounds like you have a lot on your mind! I can relate to being stuck in the conservative South and also the desire to move to the UK. I wish I could help with some fantastic life changing advice but I can't. I just wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide!!
sounds like you already know it wouldnt be a good move for you. a foreign country, no firends and a partner who wont be flexivle. Marraige is all about compromises and sounds like he aint making any- and this from a guy ! I would suggets your standard of living would be higher in the US , prices are just crazy here and you have more scope to move aorund. Imagine the UK as one state-and you will be stuck in it !! Alos the Welsh people are crazy about the English- no idea how you will fit in
Finally £280 a month will get you a garden shed in most places. If you are used to the average American house a small British apartment will feel claustrophobic. We always chuckle when watching Home Makeover and they go' these people have a small house -and its like 1500 square feet, a one bedroom flat here could be 550-650 you wont have room to turn !!!
oh and shall i mention the weather ???????????????????????
I lived in the UK and loved it. Want to go back and hoping to in the near future, I will take living there over this place any day.
Cardiff is a wonderful city, I would be ahppy if I could just plant myself right there.
Make the move, you will be thankful for it.
Do not get hooked on the false feelings consumerism gives you. Beleive it or not, money and material things are not everything. You need money to live but you do not need to live for money. Go off, have an adventure. Who cares about stuff like huge flats, 24 hour stores, etc...In the grands cheme of things, are those things really making you happy? I am sure you go home, plop yourself down and are just as bored with life as before you had those things.
Cardiff is a wonderful city, I would be ahppy if I could just plant myself right there.
Make the move, you will be thankful for it.
You have an opportunity, take it.
From reading OP's post again I think the problem is that Cardiff's not on the menu.
OP - there's the crux of your bargaining. You move to Wales to a place that you could both work and be happy in - he gets to live a short car/train ride away from his family.
Compromise - if he won't do this then I think you need a serious think about things. Or get him out to Oklahoma for a year or two first. He'll soon change his mind!
He's willing to move to the US but not to Cardiff???? Or did I midunderstand that?
As for Oklahoma - is it the job in particular that keeps you there? Curious, if you don't like the conservative culture there why you have never moved to another part of the US. There are plenty of more varied/liberal cities in a multitude of states where you could have the American lifestyle you are used to with less of a bible belt mentality.
It does sound like the issues are in part relationship issues rather than just "what country to live in" ones. You disagree on location, lifestyle, careers and a multitude of other items (or maybe that is just your internal back and forth). As someone who is married to someone from another country, I can tell you that it makes things harder. Someone is separated from family, friends and culture. Someone has to make a major adjustment. Attitudes are different. When kids come, one set of grandparents becomes the big loser. Etc. Etc. Small cultural differences which were once charming become huge issues. Compromise is key.
We ended up living in a neutral zone, away from both families. This helped in terms of balance, but makes it more difficult to visit the grandparents, and we are without the support system of extended family, which can be really tough. Of course we also have to now deal with the issue of aging parents, which is becoming a huge concern.
I wish you well. But I do think you need to look long and hard at the relationship as opposed to just the country.
* But just to be clear - the NHS is fine. Plenty of Americans die unneccesarily in hospitals every year, it's not a British thing. Look on the bright side, you never have to worry about health insurance costs or the risk of losing it ever again.
[quote=AnthonyB;4102687 As someone who is married to someone from another country, I can tell you that it makes things harder. Someone is separated from family, friends and culture. Someone has to make a major adjustment. Attitudes are different. When kids come, one set of grandparents becomes the big loser. Etc. Etc. Small cultural differences which were once charming become huge issues. Compromise is key.n.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more with this. My wife is from chicago and living here in England, and all said above hits the nail on the head.
As for the OP.. I personally wouldn't move to the welsh valleys if you gave me a free house! There are many options all over the UK, and the economy around London, cities in the north, and even Scotland is pretty strong. I was born in south wales and would never move back there. Why won't he consider other parts of the UK? Its a small place, so even in London the valleys are only 2.5 hours away.
If your only option in the UK is Wales then you will be making a huge mistake imo. Why not move to another state if you need to leave Oklahoma? If you do move to the UK you will never here people talk of religion the way you described!.. maybe California is more for you?
I have lived in Wales - in Monmouthshire, which is beautiful. Rhonda valley, not so good. Very poor area. Your boyfriend will have to compromise full stop. If hde does not want to live in Cardiff what about Abergavenny - a lovely market town, with wonderful countryside all around. Or how about Caerleon, Magor, Caerwent or around the general Monmouthshire area.
The welsh are a lot friendlier than the English. The english are great but they mind their own business and it takes longer to get to know them.
Wales is a wonderful country to live in. The NHS is ok there, no system is perfect. My American sister in law has had 3 children in the NHS hospital and had no problems or complaints.
Cardiff is a very lively city, but expensive to live in - houses cost a lot!!!
So, I would go for the Monmouthshire area if I were you. You need to go and stay over for a few weeks at least, drive around and choose together what you want. If your boyfriend cannot compromise at all, then this is a sign of massive problems ahead in your relationship anyway.
I have lived in Wales - in Monmouthshire, which is beautiful. Rhonda valley, not so good. Very poor area. Your boyfriend will have to compromise full stop. If hde does not want to live in Cardiff what about Abergavenny - a lovely market town, with wonderful countryside all around. Or how about Caerleon, Magor, Caerwent or around the general Monmouthshire area.
The welsh are a lot friendlier than the English. The english are great but they mind their own business and it takes longer to get to know them.
Wales is a wonderful country to live in. The NHS is ok there, no system is perfect. My American sister in law has had 3 children in the NHS hospital and had no problems or complaints.
Cardiff is a very lively city, but expensive to live in - houses cost a lot!!!
So, I would go for the Monmouthshire area if I were you. You need to go and stay over for a few weeks at least, drive around and choose together what you want. If your boyfriend cannot compromise at all, then this is a sign of massive problems ahead in your relationship anyway.
Nearly right there..The Eastern Valleys are better to live because of the amount of investment..As for the people they`re all the same..It depends how much snobbery come`s into your attitude...
Yes I`m English and live in both...The Welsh v English attitude, as perpetrated, is crap..It`s something for the Daily Shyster and dog tired forum threads..Live there and get involved, I married into Wales so know,if you get involved the crap about it all will become apparent,,,
I was in 10 days in Wales at a friend's family home for Christmas last year. Couldn't get out of there fast enough.
The Welsh are extremely clannish. Everybody knows everbody in Wales. Their little *villages* are tiny. From our house I went around the corner and up the block to a local pub. Friendly enough folks, they all asked me where I was staying and when I told them up around the next corner they all said "oh, in the next village?"
There is virtually NO economy in Wales. I really can't imagine how ya'll would make a decent living there.
The climate is like Seattle. Moss on everything, rains all the time. A damp depressing place.
No only would I not move there, I wouldn't even be tempted to go back for a visit. Nice people though.
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