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On a trip to Montreal, my friends and I were turned away from the Canadian border because one of us had a seven year-old driving under the influence conviction. We had driven over four hours and he wasn't even behind the wheel.
My point? People are turned away from national borders all the time and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
On the other hand, I could give you the names of 19 men who did get in and were allowed to disappear into American Society to live the American Dream. They chose not to.
There is also one rather glaring issue that you have overlooked in your America is no land of free speech tirade and it's itemized list of examples:
The free speech right, as you pointed out, does not apply to foreign nationals. It only applies to American citizens.
On a trip to Montreal, my friends and I were turned away from the Canadian border because one of us had a seven year-old driving under the influence conviction. We had driven over four hours and he wasn't even behind the wheel.
My point? People are turned away from national borders all the time and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
On the other hand, I could give you the names of 19 men who did get in and were allowed to disappear into American Society to live the American Dream. They chose not to.
There is also one rather glaring issue that you have overlooked in your America is no land of free speech tirade and it's itemized list of examples:
The free speech right, as you pointed out, does not apply to foreign nationals. It only applies to American citizens.
My point was that some Americans have pointed out that people have been refused entry into the UK because apparently we have no freedom of speech.
Well those people were not UK Nationals either.
We have plenty of home-grown racist bigots here who are perfectly able to express their hate mongering without going to Jail. Some of them even make it into Politics. Same with France, Austria etc...
If we didn't have a modicum of freedom of speech we would not have the BNP or UKIP . Those people would have been suppressed by the government and silenced. Nobody can acuse Nick Griffin of being silent. Or Le Pen in France.
I agree our freedom of speech have been strongly curtailed since the so called "war on terror" and I am appalled at some of the human rights loss we have suffered like "habeas corpus" for example.
I just think Americans can be a bit blind when it comes to the fact that their Nation is not perfect either. Not by a long shot.
Knocking our own countries is a European past-time but many Americans somehow believe that they hold some kind of superiority in all things including the moral high-ground where liberties are concerned. Some views I read about both the US and the rest of the world on this forum would be risible if they were not so darn tragic.
Freedom of speech can be a lot of empty words when you see some of the threads like American Atheists who are too scared to even have an "evolve " fish bumper sticker in the South because cars have been vandalised and people attacked. And those attacks tend to be from people would defend their rights to guns or their so called libertarian values to the death... People who have lost jobs or been denied jobs because they don't believe in God. Socially ostracised and ridiculed in their local circles. It might not all be official but the silencing of people's views and thoughts is certainly going on in the US.
Freedom of speech cannot really be a reality when bigotry and intolerance is everywhere.
All I'm saying is that a bit of balance needs to be exercised in judging how other countries deal with things because sometimes the American pot is calling the European kettle black.
The US is NOT the greatest country in the world, NO country can lay claim to this ridiculous jingoistic fantasy. It is better than other countries in some respects and worse in others.
I have lived all over the world and I can't think of one even remotely perfect Nation.
If we didn't have a modicum of freedom of speech we would not have the BNP or UKIP . Those people would have been suppressed by the government and silenced. Nobody can acuse Nick Griffin of being silent. Or Le Pen in France.
I recall Mr Griffin was very close to being put in Prison for..
Being critical of the "religon of peace".
Also Bridget Bardot was close to jail time for the same reason in France.
In the US being critical of ANY religon you would never risk jail time.
Someone posted earlier all the people denied entry into the states.
I disagree with my government on that,only those with terrorist views..
Or criminal backgrounds should be denied entry.
Some Americans are overly patriotic and America has plenty of problems.
But its still one of the best places in the world when it comes to freedom
Of speech.
Nope , as much as I love France it is still a long way from perfection. And as much as I love the UK and the US neither come close either. All have strong points in their favour but sadly all also have some serious downsides.
The concept of the "best", has always irked me actually as it is all so subjective and logic and reason always seem to fly out of the window when those fantasies of a "perfect" Eden are raised in the contect of Nationhood.
Being blind to your own faults is never a very wise move in my experience. We all do it at some point , it is human nature but when it leads people to believe themselves the "best" generally then to me it is a great failure and socially dangerous because it leads to jingoism , xenophobia and general intolerance and ingnorance.
France has no more claim to perfection or failure than Germany, the Uk , the US etc...
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