Do people in older generations (white flight) have warped ideas of modern cities? (Baltimore, suburbs)

[20yrsinBranson]

I lived in some large cities in my younger years - New Orleans, Phoenix - etc. I have very fond memories of them. The few times I have returned I find that they are much worse now than when I lived there. Heck in Phoenix, there were no gangs, no drive-by shootings, etc. You could walk at night in any neighborhood without fear. Now days you would be insane to do it.

I don't know which cities you are specifically referring to when you say that they have "improved". My opinion is that they are actually worse than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Just because a city takes out a warehouse and puts in a park instead does not make a city better or safer. People can be murdered just as dead in a park as they can behind a warehouse. There are lots of bars on upscale neighborhoods in gentrified areas, in case you haven't noticed.

20yrsinBranson

[Sgoldie]

I was in Manhattan in the 60's and I can attest to the fact that it was awful in a lot of ways. Everyone had big attack dogs (and no pickup laws), graffiti was new on the scene and all over, people were sleeping on the streets, lots of hard drugs and robberies, you didn't dare make eye contact with anyone and lots of people were armed with something.

I didn't go back myself for several years with that in mind. However, when I did I was greatly surprised to see how much better the place had gotten.

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by urza216

Cook County is filled with minorities outside of the city. My suburban area has gone through tremendous white flight as of the past ten years. It's mostly black now but a lot of whites have refused to leave and have no plans of doing so.

I'm a 23 year old Chicago suburbanite and my mind can't even grasp the concept of "minorities in the city" or a "Leave It to Beaver" suburbia.

Cook County is the least white in all of Illinois, with being 45% white non-hispanic. Go to Dupage(west of Cook) and it's 72% white non hispanic. As you probably already know, I live in South suburban Cook County as well. My city is the opposite of the leave it to Beaver. lol

Most whites that still live in the south part of Cook, have relocated further west of I-57. Most suburbs east of I-57 have turned black majority.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by imperialmog

Actually white flight does tend to be at this point more common in suburbs, espcailly inner-ring suburbs now. Also the rise of black flight has occured as well with many middle-class blacks leaving the cities, also in some cities it is blacks that are leaving more than whites to the points that some cities are becoming more white as they move in. (Atlanta and St. Louis are examples of this)

I also am thinking in terms of generation perceptions, does it vary in area depending on when each phase has happened or if it happned at all?

Oak Cliff in South Dallas has been experiencing this over the past 10 years except its not the Whites who are moving into Oak Cliff its the Hispanics. The middle class Blacks have migrated further south to a suburb of Dallas called Cedar Hill.

[imperialmog]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Oak Cliff in South Dallas has been experiencing this over the past 10 years except its not the Whites who are moving into Oak Cliff its the Hispanics. The middle class Blacks have migrated further south to a suburb of Dallas called Cedar Hill.

That also occurs in a number of places where one minority group leaves to be replaced by another minority group. In St. Louis that doesn't happen due to Hispanics are not significant enough in numbers to do that. (only around 2% or so of total metro population and also much less segregated than most places possibly due to numbers)

Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson

I lived in some large cities in my younger years - New Orleans, Phoenix - etc. I have very fond memories of them. The few times I have returned I find that they are much worse now than when I lived there. Heck in Phoenix, there were no gangs, no drive-by shootings, etc. You could walk at night in any neighborhood without fear. Now days you would be insane to do it.

I don't know which cities you are specifically referring to when you say that they have "improved". My opinion is that they are actually worse than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Just because a city takes out a warehouse and puts in a park instead does not make a city better or safer. People can be murdered just as dead in a park as they can behind a warehouse. There are lots of bars on upscale neighborhoods in gentrified areas, in case you haven't noticed.

20yrsinBranson

The cities mentioned here are more exceptions than the rule overall. Phoenix is one that grew rapidly during that time as well as issues various social issues there that are not present in most cities which would explain worsening situations. New Orleans has long standing social issues as well that haven't been resolved along with lingering effects of Hurricane Katrina. I think the worsening from 30-40 years ago only apply to places that either have grown rapidly, have large illegal immigration problems, and/or places that still haven't stabilized or recovered.

[danwxman]

Yes, it's wild how people from the same city can view the place drastically different. Philadelphia is a perfect example. You have the white flight factor, which is still going on, but now in much of the northeast part of the city. These people are seeing their neighborhoods decline and are moving out of the city, leaving no opportunity behind to bash Philly. Then you have people moving into the city, mostly students, professionals and empty nesters who love it. It mostly comes down to the fact that the people moving out are from the bad neighborhoods and stereotype the whole city being that way. The people moving in are coming into the nicer, hip neighborhoods and view the city in that light.

[BigCityDreamer]

Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson

I don't know which cities you are specifically referring to when you say that they have "improved". My opinion is that they are actually worse than they were 30 or 40 years ago.

The cities that have gentrified are better now than they were 3 or 4 decades ago. This includes NYC and DC. They have a lot less crime with cleaner and safer neighborhoods, and are attracting a wealthier crowd.

[pvande55]

They sure do. They think if you go anywhere in the city you will get mugged or shot. That's why they haven't been for 30 years. Some in the Chicago area still think Skokie is mostly Jewish when it hasn't been for many years.

[lentzr]

I know a 60+ year old woman who is definelty up-to-date with the city. However, she is the exception to the rule rather than the norm. My uncle is still in the stage where you "don't go to Harlem, Hell's Kitchen or other such areas." My other uncle thinks that NYC still is "bad" despite the fact that it has the lowest homicide rate of all the major cities over a million. Another relative cried a few years when they realized that the city was not that bad anymore. She believed for so long that the city was such a miserable place it was hard for her to digest her new view at the age of 60. (Though now, she is not afraid to drive all over the Bronx looking for one hospital...what a change in her!) However, the list goes on even further of those I know that are still in the old stage. They grew up in the 60's when their parents scared the heck out of them describing how bad everything was. There is just too many people of the older generation in my family that still think it is 1968. Hence, I have to agree with the OP. Not all old-timers are like that, but too many are. The younger generation is more in tune with what the modern city is like, though there may be exception. Therefore, I feel that in the case of my family it is safe to make the generalization that the younger people are more in touch with the changes that took place in the city in the past 20 years.

[JR_C]

I often encounter people who still assume that: "only poor people live in the city" or "everyone who was able, has already left the city" etc. Mostly, they are older folks, but young people can feel this way too, if their parents have brought them up believing it, and they never bothered to question it.