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I have noticed that from talking to several people that left cities for good in the 50-60s, even from Chicago and New York that they have these very warped ideas of what the city is like now. I have heard all these bad stories of it and they view it so weird, which is completely WRONG of how they are now.
But I think this whole period, mostly of boomers had these weird ideas, opposed to cities (STILL) and love the suburban living.
Case in point are both my parents and my gfs parents... My dad was in Chicago in the 60s. My gfs mom was in Manhattan in the 60s, her dad was in Chicago, New York, St Louis and a few others as he was a business man. They all have the same mostly negative view of modern day cities, like they are exactly the same as it was back in that era. They all left respectively for sunny california and florida burbs.
Thoughts? Has anybody else experienced difficulties trying to explain life there to this older generation?
I have noticed that from talking to several people that left cities for good in the 50-60s, even from Chicago and New York that they have these very warped ideas of what the city is like now. I have heard all these bad stories of it and they view it so weird, which is completely WRONG of how they are now.
But I think this whole period, mostly of boomers had these weird ideas, opposed to cities (STILL) and love the suburban living.
Case in point are both my parents and my gfs parents... My dad was in Chicago in the 60s. My gfs mom was in Manhattan in the 60s, her dad was in Chicago, New York, St Louis and a few others as he was a business man. They all have the same mostly negative view of modern day cities, like they are exactly the same as it was back in that era. They all left respectively for sunny california and florida burbs.
Thoughts? Has anybody else experienced difficulties trying to explain life there to this older generation?
I know in St. Louis this is very true with older generations. The cutoff age seems to be around 40 years old in this. I think part of it is that the younger generation have no memory of the issues that caused white flight.
There are several generations of my family who have not been to downtown Houston in decades and have no idea how much it has changed.
In Houston it wasn't just the whites who fled. Huge portions of African American neighborhoods dried out (esp AA businesses). After desegregation a lot of AAs felt a need to live in integrated neighborhoods and patronize white owned businesses.
The downtown and near downtown areas are revitalized now and hardly recognizable
I agree that this is very common among the baby boomer generation and older. Heck, even many younger people are like this. My parents, and many of their pears that I grew up around, cannot relate to urban life in America. In their case they are from a rural area and have never experienced any sort of city life. Many suburbanites are the same and have heard stories about how our urban cores went to crap in previous generations. Basically they seem to have the impression that the city is where all the bad stuff happens in this county and that it should be avoided. In a way their feelings are justified because lets face it, our urban cores still have major issues. On the other hand they are oblivious to our good urban areas and do not realize the benefits to city life. When my father sees an old urban neighborhood he associates it with poor living conditions and being obsolete, even if it's in good condition. To him success means having a big house and a big yard outside of the city.
Now my grandparents are a bit different. They actually lived in inner city Cleveland back when it was a thriving urban center. In particular they lived in the Hough section of Cleveland, which today is infamous for being one of the most deteriorate neighborhoods in the country. When they lived in Hough in was a solid area that was probably comparable to the good neighborhoods you see today in cities like Chicago or San Francisco. Unlike my parents, when I talk about city life with my grandparents they understand it and can relate to it. To them they see city life as something that was lost with the deterioration of our cities, which they could not go back to.
Cook County is filled with minorities outside of the city. My suburban area has gone through tremendous white flight as of the past ten years. It's mostly black now but a lot of whites have refused to leave and have no plans of doing so.
I'm a 23 year old Chicago suburbanite and my mind can't even grasp the concept of "minorities in the city" or a "Leave It to Beaver" suburbia.
Cook County (Chicago) is filled with minorities outside of the city. My suburban area has gone through tremendous white flight as of the past ten years. It's mostly black now but a lot of whites have refused to leave and have no plans of doing so.
Actually white flight does tend to be at this point more common in suburbs, espcailly inner-ring suburbs now. Also the rise of black flight has occured as well with many middle-class blacks leaving the cities, also in some cities it is blacks that are leaving more than whites to the points that some cities are becoming more white as they move in. (Atlanta and St. Louis are examples of this)
I also am thinking in terms of generation perceptions, does it vary in area depending on when each phase has happened or if it happned at all?
Actually white flight does tend to be at this point more common in suburbs, espcailly inner-ring suburbs now. Also the rise of black flight has occured as well with many middle-class blacks leaving the cities, also in some cities it is blacks that are leaving more than whites to the points that some cities are becoming more white as they move in. (Atlanta and St. Louis are examples of this)
I also am thinking in terms of generation perceptions, does it vary in area depending on when each phase has happened or if it happned at all?
Well, just for the record, my post you quoted was actually referring to the "far" south suburbs of Chicago - not inner ring at all. Maybe in other metros it's different but in the Chicago area, I don't think inner ring or not inner ring has much to do with it. Minorities live in the suburbs, period. This isn't the 1950s.
That's interesting about Saint Louis though.. Do you have any links you can back yourself up with?
Well, just for the record, my post you quoted was actually referring to the "far" south suburbs of Chicago - not inner ring at all. Maybe in other metros it's different but in the Chicago area, I don't think inner ring or not inner ring has much to do with it. Minorities live in the suburbs, period. This isn't the 1950s.
That's interesting about Saint Louis though.. Do you have any links you can back yourself up with?
The Wikipedia article for St. Louis has citations from census data for 2000 and data around 2005. It shows the racial makeup that shows the percentage of blacks is decreasing while for whites its increasing. (also increasing some for asians and hispanics though both groups combined are only about 5% of total population) The population isn't growing that fast due to many of the worst off areas which also are largely black are decreasing population as people leave while the other areas are increasing population by people who tend to be weathier which also includes wealthier and/or immigrant blacks than those who are leaving. It points to a gentrification trend in St. Louis city that most cities have but is largely masked by areas still being depopulated. The 2010 census data is going to be interesting on how the trend likely continued as well as how it played out in other cities. Actually it is part of a trend that has shown up lately about the changing racial mix of urban and suburban areas where the two are starting to have more similar racial mixes.
Probably more of an industry-specific, lifestyle-specific thing than age....would argue many of most tech-savvy of today's <30yo yuppies are based in suburbs and live/work/play far more virtually than their >35yo elders, yet many affluent, semi-retired empty nesters move from suburbs to new condo towers in SF or Manhattan in old age to experience fine dining daily and Luddite culture like live entertainment
For ex., many <40yo engineers in SiliconValley view cities like SF or Manhattan as fairly irrelevant to their lives....jobs and major companies are based in suburbs of PaloAlto....and unless one is a major food nut, not much of relevance in cities except fine dining and poverty tourism
Similarly, many middle-income workers w/kids in Dallas live and work in suburban corridors like Plano, for affordable newer housing, decent public schools and proximity to their suburban offices, making downtown Dallas rather irrelevant and dead, much like downtown Cleveland or Phila or LA or Detroit or SJ
Inventions like cars, HVAC, mobile computing, Net, TV and suburban offices have made any major city a costly, inefficient gathering spot for Luddites living an early 20th century lifestyle in an Old Economy: a few million poors riding mass transit/20yo cars to low-skill jobs in ancient industries like tourism or govt or retailing and a few 1000 yuppies who often drive to modern offices and major cos. based in distant suburbs like MenloPk or Cupertino or Irving or Greenwich
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