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Old 04-20-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,924 posts, read 34,421,649 times
Reputation: 14996

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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
What you mean people don't walk from the South Bronx to Brighton Beach?
Nope. You just walk from Washington Heights to Harlem then to Morningside Heights then to the UWS, etc. Or you walk from Eckington to Bloomingdale, then to Ledroit Park, then to Shaw, then to Logan, then to Dupont, then up 14th to U Street, then up 14th some more to Columbia Heights, then over to Mount Pleasant, then over to Adams-Morgan, then over to Woodley Park, then up to the National Zoo. A contiguous collection of neighborhoods with small, intimate streets, wide sidewalks, and very little parking that pushes development back. No "suburban infill" as one poster put it.

That's what's called a cohesive, urban core.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,924 posts, read 34,421,649 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamoLA View Post
You obviously don't understand how big Los Angeles is, or you'd realize how ridiculous it is to think that the ENTIRE CITY would be one big "contiguous" walking utopia.

For whatever reason you seem to think that you should be able to "walk" from Santa Monica to West Hollywood to Hollywood to Downtown, regardless of the fact that NOBODY would walk that distance in ANY city.
That's not the point. The point is that in NYC, DC, Chicago or Boston, you don't see development die down as soon as you leave one walkable area, and then enter suburban infill, then enter another walkable area three miles later, and then enter more suburban infill after that. The urban fabric is consistent over a much larger area than what you see in Los Angeles.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Glendale, CA
1,299 posts, read 2,528,688 times
Reputation: 1395
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Nope. You just walk from Washington Heights to Harlem then to Morningside Heights then to the UWS, etc. Or you walk from Eckington to Bloomingdale, then to Ledroit Park, then to Shaw, then to Logan, then to Dupont, then up 14th to U Street, then up 14th some more to Columbia Heights, then over to Mount Pleasant, then over to Adams-Morgan, then over to Woodley Park, then up to the National Zoo. A contiguous collection of neighborhoods with small, intimate streets, wide sidewalks, and very little parking that pushes development back. No "suburban infill" as one poster put it.

That's what's called a cohesive, urban core.
Lol. So you are comparing roughly 6 miles of NYC (in your NY example) with the entire city of Los Angeles?

No wonder this conversation isn't going anywhere.

Similar distances in Los Angeles: Middle of West Hollywood to Middle of Hollywood. Santa Monica down to Venice.

Your entire argument is "Los Angeles is not New York and is therefore not urban".
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,924 posts, read 34,421,649 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamoLA View Post
Similar distances in Los Angeles: Middle of West Hollywood to Middle of Hollywood. Santa Monica down to Venice.
You mean six miles with "suburban neighborhoods filling the distance in between?" Like this for example:

los angeles california - Google Maps

Good luck finding that in the "core" of Chicago.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,363,199 times
Reputation: 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamoLA View Post
Lol. So you are comparing roughly 6 miles of NYC (in your NY example) with the entire city of Los Angeles?

No wonder this conversation isn't going anywhere.

Similar distances in Los Angeles: Middle of West Hollywood to Middle of Hollywood. Santa Monica down to Venice.

Your entire argument is "Los Angeles is not New York and is therefore not urban".

This. Btw, Eckington to the National Zoo (with all those neighborhoods filled with cheesesteaks and calypso shops in between) = maybe a 3 mile walk? If that? How scary huge, like that big city planet form Star Wars.

These critiques on L.A.'s urban form are subjective. 20 pages admonishing tiny parking lots, lulz. As far as facts, even at 50 sq miles, L.A. ranks second only to NYC in density. There are 1.9 million Angelenos living in 20k neighborhoods vs the next city on the list, Chicago (1.1 million). L.A.'s core blows D.C. away in residential density. That anyone would even argue that our capital is more urban pretty much answers the OP's question with a resounding "YES".

Last edited by RaymondChandlerLives; 04-20-2012 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,774,395 times
Reputation: 4049
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Nope. You just walk from Washington Heights to Harlem then to Morningside Heights then to the UWS, etc.

This walk is 5.8 miles...

A similar walk (though less urban because no one here is comparing LA's urbanity to the level of NYC) in Los Angeles would:
  • Start in Chinatown
  • Venture down into Little Tokyo (.9 miles)
  • From there to the Old Bank District (.7 miles)
  • Followed by the Historic Core (.3 miles)
  • Through the Financial District to Westlake (1.7 miles)
  • Through Wilshire Center (1.2 miles)
  • Up into Koreatown (.6 miles)
  • From there Virgil Village is a short trek (.2 miles)
  • Then Melrose Hill is right next door (.7 miles)
  • Just a mile away is the Kaiser Permanente.
Over 7 miles of pretty continuous vibrant street life and urbanity. None of those destinations is more than 1.7 miles (from Financial District to Westlake - but that is probably one of the more interesting stretches anyways).

And really, from the Kaiser Hospital you are only a mile from Thai Town/Little Armenia, which is a mile from Central Hollywood, which is a mile from Guitar Row on Sunset, which is less than a mile from the heart of West Hollywood.

Not to mention the weather is probably incredibly mild (perfect for walking long distances) so this walk would be more than tolerable, lasting about 2.5 hours (3.5 if you walk to Central Hollywood).

Last edited by munchitup; 04-20-2012 at 12:08 PM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,861 posts, read 15,185,440 times
Reputation: 6757
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Nope. You just walk from Washington Heights to Harlem then to Morningside Heights then to the UWS, etc. Or you walk from Eckington to Bloomingdale, then to Ledroit Park, then to Shaw, then to Logan, then to Dupont, then up 14th to U Street, then up 14th some more to Columbia Heights, then over to Mount Pleasant, then over to Adams-Morgan, then over to Woodley Park, then up to the National Zoo. A contiguous collection of neighborhoods with small, intimate streets, wide sidewalks, and very little parking that pushes development back. No "suburban infill" as one poster put it.

That's what's called a cohesive, urban core.
Lol! How can you compare a tiny city like DC to LA. Especially all of those DC neighborhoods you named. All of those combined is probably 1/100 of what parts of LA has. From Santa Monica Blvd and Doheny thru West Hollywood, Hollywood, Los Feliz, Silverlake to dt Los Angeles. Any of the major blvds from the westside to downtown is one continuious mass for miles. No you won't see rowhouses. Again you can not compare a city of 62 sq miles to one of 464 sq miles.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,924 posts, read 34,421,649 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Over 7 miles of pretty continuous vibrant street life and urbanity. None of those destinations is more than 1.7 miles (from Financial District to Westlake - but that is probably one of the more interesting stretches anyways).
Are you serious? Just because the distance is 7 miles does not mean that it's 7 miles of anything close to uninterrupted urbanity.

For example...here's a strip that looks walkable in Chinatown.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And then you walk a little ways down the street and see this.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Or this.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

This looks pretty similar to Arlington. Don't believe me? LA is like Arlington times 4000.

Arlington, Virginia - Google Maps

Here's another cool strip in Little Tokyo.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

But just a 100 or so feet down the street leads to this.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Or this.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

More Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington (or Dallas).

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,774,395 times
Reputation: 4049
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Are you serious? Just because the distance is 7 miles does not mean that it's 7 miles of anything close to uninterrupted urbanity.

For example...here's a strip that looks walkable in Chinatown.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And then you walk a little ways down the street and see this.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Or this.

Chinatown, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

This looks pretty similar to Arlington. Don't believe me? LA is like Arlington times 4000.

Arlington, Virginia - Google Maps

Here's another cool strip in Little Tokyo.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

But just a 100 or so feet down the street leads to this.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Or this.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

More Arlington.

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

And more Arlington (or Dallas).

Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps
The urban strips far outnumber the strip malls and other "un urban" areas you cherry pick through.

But go ahead, cherry pick away.

EDIT: Reviewing your links, half those aren't even in Little Tokyo (and certainly are nowhere near the path I posted earlier). The ones that are in the neighborhood look pretty urban to me and much more than that big box strip mall you posted in Arlington. Just because they Hyperlink is "Little Tokyo" doesn't mean that is where the streetview is.

EDIT PT2: The warehouse district? Seriously?

Last edited by munchitup; 04-20-2012 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,924 posts, read 34,421,649 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Los Angeles exhibits a comparatively even distribution of population throughout its urbanized area. As a result, the city suffers from many consequences of high population density, including extreme traffic congestion, poor air quality, and high housing prices, while offering its residents few benefits that typically accompany this density, including fast and effective public transit, vibrant street life, and tightly knit urban neighborhoods.
-Eric Eidlin, "The Worst of All Worlds: Los Angeles, California and the Emerging Reality of Dense Sprawl"

Quote:
L.A. has the highest density of parking spaces in the world. “You can’t have the number of cars we have in L.A. without our parking lots,” says Shoup. “And you can never create urban density with the parking lots we’ve built.” They make driving too easy.
-Interview with Donald Shoup, former Chair of the UCLA Department of Urban Planning

This is the "active street life," "tightly knit neighborhoods," and "urban density" they were talking about. An ecosystem of tightly-connected, highly walkable neighborhoods where you can turn corner after corner without seeing a series of streets that look like Queens Chapel Road in Chillum, MD.

Brooklyn, NY - Google Maps

Washington, DC - Google Maps

boston, ma - Google Maps
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