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Old 03-11-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,476 posts, read 6,500,432 times
Reputation: 3630
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogetta View Post
I just want to know how this is possible that there are predominantly hispanic and asian neighborhoods in the ATL, when it has such a small hispanic and especially small asian population? Although I do know that the hispanic population in ATL has been growing.
I understand many people look at city stats as the golden rule to find out about a place, and if you look up the city of Atlanta on CD or whever you would think that there aren't many Asians or Latinos in Atlanta. In reality there are about half a million Latinos and a quarter million Asians living in the Atlanta area (if not more since there as been a surge of both groups in the last 10 years).

Also, the city is physically small place (just 131 square miles), and most of the desiarable intown neighborhoods are prohibitively expensive to a lot of people. Particular immigrants which make up a large portion of the Asians and Latinos who have moved to this area. Because of this, they generally move to areas just outside the city where the cost of living can be as much as half or more less expensive than neighborhoods literally across the street. That is the case with those neighborhoods I listed (Chamblee and Doraville and Unic-North Dekalb), that do not get counted in the City of Atlanta's stats but are physically concurrent with the city itself.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: In the heights
11,049 posts, read 9,360,486 times
Reputation: 4747
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
You have not said one thing that other systems could improve on. You've just been attacking nys system the whole time. Anything european is godlike to some ppl here on city-data so its not surprising


I also haven't hyped any system as vastly superior to NYC's. I'm responding to the ignorance of people such as yourself who hype one system and don't know any others. No one's said anything particularly foolish about the systems in other countries, so there's been little reason to criticize them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post

First off none of those cities are true 24 hour cities like new york. Your beloved london underground stops running at 12, the last call is before that. That wouldnt work in new york at all. Im the kinda guy who's just getting ON the train at 12 heading to a party/function/work. The city is still vibrant and busy at this time aswell. So no, nightly buses would not work for new york. I agree with you that more late night trains should run express. Thats a tweak the mta needs to consider. If they were to adjust that than nycs system would completely blow night buses out of the water. Also as some one who got off work in the range of 1-3 am, i think i know how well served 24transit can be. And trust me there were many people on those trains
. Theres no way of getting around it full 24hour transit is superior period
No, there is definitely a way to get around saying 24 hour rail transit (not transit in general because plenty of cities have 24 hour mass transit) is superior. There are very obvious trade-offs to it. Why don't you try actually balancing the idea out in your head first? Bus with limited stops. Bus gets greenlights. Bus gets no traffic to contend with. Bus can take expressways. Now, why would that be inherently slower than rail? You haven't addressed a single reason for why that's a bad system, and it's likely because you can't wrap your head around buses that function differently than those of NYC. Now let's look at the trains--how full are they at 2 am on a weekday? Do you think it's actually efficient for NYC to run trains at that hour?


Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
And to the guy that supposedly works on multiple transit systems- Most of the citizens in those cities would love to have the 24/7 option in their systems. Lets not get beside ourselves
Most large cities do have 24/7 transit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
And exactly how limited would these stops be, your talking alot of streets and avenues here. Most londoners would prefer to be on a train at night than a bus. And trains cover larger areas aswell, than just specific bus routes. And it doesnt matter how many ppl are traveling from the bx to far rockaway. As a citizen of new york you have that option to do so at anytime
So when I explicitly said the stops that the trains make can be used as the same express stops for a bus, I actually really meant that the stops that the trains make can be used as the same express stops for a bus. Or if I can just be a bit more precise, I mean the stops that the trains make as the same express stops for a bus. You know--not stops every other block, but maybe every dozen or half-dozen blocks. Kind of like what the train does. Except you use buses. Why exactly can't a bus cover the same area that trains can? If anything, buses should be able to cover much larger areas given that there are a lot more surface streets/expressways in NYC (and pretty much any city) than there are rail lines. And how is it that actual usage patterns don't matter? I am thrilled that you actually don't have an interest in mass transit because if you were ever to work in any executive capacity for a transit agency, it'd be absolutely screwed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
Of course its not going to curb where you go. At the end of the day u still gotta get to where u need to get too. You just have to pay more to do it. Nyc is charging 2.25 at the door with free drinks all night.
What? There isn't even a point being made here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
The whole "if u knew the geography of your own city" is lame. You know what you know because like you said your a transit geek who has a big mta poster in your house. The majority of the bronx can get to the 4/5/6 anyway. There are parts of boroughs that are under served. Your right never said the system was perfect
Yea, it is incredibly lame that you don't know your own city and yet you'll jump in to any conversation even remotely critical of NYC. You don't know what you're talking about, but you're just so incredibly content to jabber on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y View Post
Not saying new yorks is perfect either. I've never had that much problems with our system so hay? Trains being a little late might be unacceptable in tokyo. Trains stopping at 1230 is unacceptable in New York. Its a two way street
We're not talking about being just a little late--tardiness can run a huge gamut for the trains and the thing is you almost never know when it'll hit you (and also, you often can't warn people in advance because you get no cell phone reception underground/downstairs). Do you work in an industry where time is valuable and it's absolutely necessary to be punctual? Have you ever watched a twenty minute buffer time (which is what I almost always use for anything important) get slowly eaten away while you're waiting for the train? Why should this be acceptable in NYC? I'm pretty unhappy about it, and I don't think it's something that should just be accepted rather than something that needs to be rectified.

Trains stopping at 1230 in NYC would be unacceptable--if there were no equally good substitutes and there were no benefits to be gained from it.

Anyhow, I'm going to stop responding to you unless you actually start making anything like a concrete and reasonable point. Right now you're repeating yourself and forcing me to repeat myself. You don't get it. Fine. I think other posters on this board do, and that's far more important.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: In the heights
11,049 posts, read 9,360,486 times
Reputation: 4747
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogetta View Post
I just want to know how this is possible that there are predominantly hispanic and asian neighborhoods in the ATL, when it has such a small hispanic and especially small asian population? Although I do know that the hispanic population in ATL has been growing.
The Asian, specifically Korean, population is also going through massive growth in Atlanta. The number of friends and relatives that my Korean friends now have in Atlanta or are planing on moving to Atlanta is crazy.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:02 PM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 4,081,279 times
Reputation: 1319
so to the ppl that think systems like london, tokyo, paris, etc. are better than nyc's, state why. lets get everything out in the open instead of debate about nothing at all.

i feel where KONY is coming from and agree with him. i feel like ppl are underestimating the 24 hour thing and the coverage of nyc's subway system in comparison to the efficiency of europe's (and asia's) various systems...and making it seem like nyc isn't efficient OR making improvements to an already great mass transit system.

i have been to europe, and i have lived in europe before. i DO believe that their cities overall are better when it comes to transit than the u.s. is BUT i think and know from first hand experience that nyc is superior to most if not all of their systems. this includes london, berlin, paris, madrid, etc.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:17 PM
 
515 posts, read 461,036 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
so to the ppl that think systems like london, tokyo, paris, etc. are better than nyc's, state why. lets get everything out in the open instead of debate about nothing at all.

i feel where KONY is coming from and agree with him. i feel like ppl are underestimating the 24 hour thing and the coverage of nyc's subway system in comparison to the efficiency of europe's (and asia's) various systems...and making it seem like nyc isn't efficient OR making improvements to an already great mass transit system.

i have been to europe, and i have lived in europe before. i DO believe that their cities overall are better when it comes to transit than the u.s. is BUT i think and know from first hand experience that nyc is superior to most if not all of their systems. this includes london, berlin, paris, madrid, etc.
I currently live in NYC - other than the convience of express tracks and 24 hour service, I find nothing superior about NYC's subway system to those found in Europe and Asia.

NYC blows away everything else in the states, but I think the general under-investment in the system prevents it from being the "best" (if there is such a thing) in the world.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:42 PM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 4,081,279 times
Reputation: 1319
so do you not think that the 24 hour service plus express lines make nyc at least on par with systems found in europe and asia?

also do you not think that those systems are flawed because of the lack of express lines and 24 hour service?

just curious.

also i think the investment, while it isn't what i wish it to be, is an improvement. thats just me tho...but when they implement some of the things that they are working on/thinking about in the next few years then what will the complaints be then?? this isn't aimed at you but just aimed at the thread in general.

are ppl even really aware of what the mta is working on now and what they would like to do in the future? has half the thread even stepped foot in nyc and on a train?
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: In the heights
11,049 posts, read 9,360,486 times
Reputation: 4747
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
so do you not think that the 24 hour service plus express lines make nyc at least on par with systems found in europe and asia?

also do you not think that those systems are flawed because of the lack of express lines and 24 hour service?

just curious.

also i think the investment, while it isn't what i wish it to be, is an improvement. thats just me tho...but when they implement some of the things that they are working on/thinking about in the next few years then what will the complaints be then?? this isn't aimed at you but just aimed at the thread in general.

are ppl even really aware of what the mta is working on now and what they would like to do in the future? has half the thread even stepped foot in nyc and on a train?
I've said NYC's system is among the best in the world, and I meant it. The coverage, the price, the 24 hours service, and the express trains all combine to make it great. I think the problem is that some people take criticism of something as the same as outright denouncing it, or that the praising of one system necessarily means the ridicule of another. There's no one single system I feel is really heads and shoulders above all others, though Tokyo's is one I hold in especially high regard (even without 24 hour service), so it's hard to really pit all of them collectively against NYC's since they'll all have their specific advantages and disadvantages in comparison. It's a lot easier, and I think more productive, to talk about things you want for your system and to use a comparison on those same subjects with other systems which have found ways around that problem. Also, I really want cell phone (at least for text messages--though maybe not phone calls because I don't know if New Yorkers who won't have the common courtesy to not be a jackass with using cell phones on the subway will be sufferable)

I'm pretty well aware of what the MTA has planned on the books, and I'm fairly excited (especially their focus on better bus service, though I think they need to get their models checked because some of the relatively recent changes in bus service do not seem to be working out). I'm even more excited by all the plans that are possible, but aren't on the books.

Unfortunately, we don't exactly give that much money to public transportation in the US (the MTA included) in comparison to what other countries do, and we also don't give a fair and dedicated revenue stream to these systems (which some East Asian countries have done a great job of, i.e., of course areas served by good mass transit are more valuable and therefore much of the appreciated value from development around it should be shoveled towards the system that allowed such a thing to happen).
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:12 PM
 
1,712 posts, read 1,857,250 times
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In America, NY has the best, but an honorable mention should go to many small University dominated cities. Many of these college towns have shuttles that get students from their housing to all points of the college quickly and they come around very frequently
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:53 PM
 
902 posts, read 1,544,290 times
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^^^ NYC has the most and best options for transportation, but that doesn't neccessarily make it the best. I asked way earlier in this thread to no avail if anyone had any type of stats for perspective cities and there metros when it comes to % of the pop. that uses public transportation. Also which systems are the most efficient, enviromentally friendly, most comfortable, also should factor in to the equation for the best. NOT Saying that it is, but I remember 2-3 years ago when BART was named the overall best PT system in the country bar none. Though, BART is great it isn't neccessarily the best either.
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:01 AM
 
515 posts, read 461,036 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
so do you not think that the 24 hour service plus express lines make nyc at least on par with systems found in europe and asia?

I never said that NYC's subway system wasn't on par - I just said it wasn't the best.

also do you not think that those systems are flawed because of the lack of express lines and 24 hour service?

just curious.
I never said that NYC's subway system wasn't on par (I think it is) - I just said it wasn't the best. There's a difference. Express tracks and 24-hour service are some of the key features unique to NYC's subway that make it great.

However, I don't think the other systems are "flawed" because they don't have these features. As mentioned earlier in this thread, often the lack of 24-hour subway service is substituted with more robust late night bus service. The lack of express tracks can be compensated by more frequent service (as you probably know, some NYC subway lines have pretty long wait times).

Certain features (to name a few) that are ubiquitous in subway systems in Europe and Asia:
- Digital signs indicating when the next train is arriving (I know this exists on the L-train in NYC and is slowing being implemented throughout the system).
- Modern rolling stock (some trains used in New York are embarrassingly antiquated and need to be replaced).
- Touchless subway cards (like the Oyster Card in London) would reduce log-jams at the turnstyles.

Furthermore, most cities abroad have a far more robust commuter train system. While the LIRR and MetroNorth are great by U.S. standards, they still don't match the Paris's RER, London's rapidly expanding Commuter Train System (look up Crossrail), and Tokyo's Commuter Train System that serves nearly 30 million people.

Oh another thing that exists in most major cities abroad - a direct rail link to the airports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
also i think the investment, while it isn't what i wish it to be, is an improvement. thats just me tho...but when they implement some of the things that they are working on/thinking about in the next few years then what will the complaints be then?? this isn't aimed at you but just aimed at the thread in general.

are ppl even really aware of what the mta is working on now and what they would like to do in the future? has half the thread even stepped foot in nyc and on a train?
I'm fully aware of the Second Avenue "T" line being built, the Fulton Street Transfer Station, and the number 7-train extension to Javits. However the 7-train extension is a perfect example of how America short changes its transit systems. I don't understand why they're spending 1 to 2 billion dollars to extend the line without adding a subway station at 10th Avenue and 42nd Street.

Finally, a disgusting terminal like Penn Station would likely not exist abroad (probably the original station wouldn't have been demolished in the first place). I find it appalling that we cannot find the funds to do a full overhaul of the busiest train station in the U.S. Meanwhile, London just opened the rehabilitated St. Pancras Station, which is one of the most stunning train stations I've ever seen.

Anyway - bottom line is that I see much room for improvement in NYC's transit system. Doesn't mean its not world class - just means its not the best.
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