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Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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By the way guys, I know some of you are saying other cities in the world might make it like Hyderabad or Bangalore and stuff but I'm just talking about the ones in the United States here, can any in the United States make it? We're not allowed to talk about development and future trends of anything outside of North America, like what will happen to Bangalore or Hyderabad in the future as according to the guidelines of the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico
what about Zurich, Munich, Frankfurt, Montreal, Milan? Not 10 mil but certainly global power cities.
Yeah for sure. They are powerful cities.
But with this thread just the mega cities (10 Million +). I hate to sound like a pessimist (I hate pessimism) but to be blunt unless there's something I'm not seeing here I cant see Dallas-Fort Worth & Atlanta as a mega city. It's not even the water issue but its just that its a glass ceiling that cities all around the world have to break in general first, the ones that make it have these things in common (either a national capital for their country or their metropolitan area is on some large coast).
I know its the 21st century and a place like Chengdu, China broke both those restrictions and did it, but its in a country with 1.3 Billion people too. It's the largest city in its region of China. I'm not trying to be pessimistic here but it just seems like a hard barrier to break for a city in general (coastal or non-coastal) but almost impossible for a non-coastal AND non-national capital city to do it.
I mean that's just a "Mega City" too (10 Million +), America only has one "Hyper City/Meta City" (20 Million +). We're really trailing a lot of other areas of the world in our human development category, which in my opinion makes it that much harder for an American city to accomplish.
Atlanta & Dallas-Fort Worth to do this, have to be amongst the most strong willed cities in the world. Let's see what happens I don't want to count them out yet because I don't know, but this is a very very very high glass ceiling to break.
By the way guys, I know some of you are saying other cities in the world might make it like Hyderabad or Bangalore and stuff but I'm just talking about the ones in the United States here, can any in the United States make it? We're not allowed to talk about development and future trends of anything outside of North America, like what will happen to Bangalore or Hyderabad in the future as according to the guidelines of the forum.
Yeah for sure. They are powerful cities.
But with this thread just the mega cities (10 Million +). I hate to sound like a pessimist (I hate pessimism) but to be blunt unless there's something I'm not seeing here I cant see Dallas-Fort Worth & Atlanta as a mega city. It's not even the water issue but its just that its a glass ceiling that cities all around the world have to break in general first, the ones that make it have these things in common (either a national capital for their country or their metropolitan area is on some large coast).
I know its the 21st century and a place like Chengdu, China broke both those restrictions and did it, but its in a country with 1.3 Billion people too. It's the largest city in its region of China. I'm not trying to be pessimistic here but it just seems like a hard barrier to break for a city in general (coastal or non-coastal) but almost impossible for a non-coastal AND non-national capital city to do it.
I mean that's just a "Mega City" too (10 Million +), America only has one "Hyper City/Meta City" (20 Million +). We're really trailing a lot of other areas of the world in our human development category, which in my opinion makes it that much harder for an American city to accomplish.
Atlanta & Dallas-Fort Worth to do this, have to be amongst the most strong willed cities in the world. Let's see what happens I don't want to count them out yet because I don't know, but this is a very very very high glass ceiling to break.
I'm pretty sure Dallas and Atlanta will not see the growth of the last 30 years, the next 30... sunbelt will eventually balance out and prices will come up.
I would say ... yes, of course. It is all about transportation access. In an odd way Chicago is a perfect example. It might be on water, but there are severe limitations on ship accessibility. However, they had the infrastructure built to move goods throughout the Midwest and to New England.
In the U.S. the obvious major inland cities, Atlanta and Dallas are both interstate, rail, and air transportation hubs. The key point is there is high transportation access to people, goods, and resources.
Atlanta popped up early, because rail was extremely important in the late 1800s and early 1900s, It is pretty much the northern most point they could cheaply make fast, mainline rail to the midwest and north east without the Appalachians getting in the way (which makes it more expensive/slower). Atlanta became a natural shipping crossroads, so there is a higher access to resources.
A more modern day example is Atlanta's proximity to the major cities in the Eastern U.S., which makes it a perfect air transportation hub. Aslong as they maintain this infrastructure it is an ideal place to be and grow.
As far as "glass ceilings" go. I'm not sure what to say... phrases like 'glass ceiling,' 'Mega city,' and 'hyper city' are all arbitrary how they are defined.
In 3 decades Dallas and Atlanta have doubled in population and still rapidly growing. They have already hit the glass ceiling standards that existed 3 decades ago. The problem is over time people's standards change/grow larger. They will continue to grow aslong as the modern economy does well. If anything it is economics pushing the growth inland, so there are transportation points between other major regions.
What I will say though... In the looooong term outlook. In-land cities are heavily dependent on modern innovations in transportation. Say in 500, 1000, or more years we run out of creative ways to deal with energy/fuel access they will suffer more than port towns with good sea access. No matter what happens throughout long-term history ships will always be able to make use of water and natural wind to move around without modern innovations.
I would also spot Germany and it's cities. It is the most powerful country in the Euro zone politically and economically right now and most of it's major cities are not on the coast. However, they have strong port cities in Bremerhaven, Rostock, Hamburg, etc.. and good transportation networks built throughout their country.
4% May not seem a lot, factor in the actual number 22.9 Million in metric tons of cargo and you get the idea because its the largest distribution center in the United States by all modals combined that is. And the next competition is still far off.
Chicago makes VERY good use of its water port system, ESPECIALLY when it comes to trade with Canada, it and Detroit are the most vital links to Canadian trade.
I mean I'm not trying to say Chicago isn't limited as far as water port goes because it is, and by a lot, but come on. Dallas-Fort Worth & Atlanta don't even have this kind of port system for water transportation of cargo and goods at all with high traffic on cargo ships.
And in addition to that, the city sits on the worlds largest Fresh Water Source at Surface Level, hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands of miles of coastline existing for the Great Lakes. These people in this city don't even for one day think they're out in a landlocked land.
Using Chicago or any large city on the Great Lakes or even using Istanbul, Turkey as an example for Dallas-Fort Worth & Atlanta is just so wrong. And just like Chicago, Istanbul also has a similar port system that goes from the Mediterranean Sea to the Atlantic.
Chicago also has the 3rd largest Intermodal Sea Port in the world after only Hong Kong & Singapore.
Port of Chicago (I mean come on Atlanta & Dallas don't get these cargo ships, do they?):
Can a city become a "Mega City" if its landlocked and not a National Capital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY
I was thinking about prospective population gains in some of the fastest increasing cities in our country right now. It's no secret that America has some of the sprawliest places when it comes to development and that really adds on to much of the growth we see in our metropolitan areas.
I was just looking at the list of largest cities in the world. And I noticed something, every city there is either on coast (the metropolitan area is on the coast) or is a national capital and political center of its country. Not one exception to it at all.
I was thinking more in terms about some of our large inland cities (Chicago doesn't count since Great Lakes would be considered a sea in other countries- and St. Lawrence River connects them to the Atlantic and Chicago maintains water port activity through sea modal). Anyways I was thinking about our large inland cities that have passed up the half way mark to becoming "Mega Cities" (10,000,000 people +)
Do any of you think the USA will defy that trend and be amongst the first country to have a "Mega City" that is landlocked & not a national capital?
Dallas-Fort Worth was at 6.8 Million in 2009, by the moment it should be at 7 Million people (at CSA level). Atlanta is reaching 6 Million this year (CSA level).
What do you guys think? Will the largest landlocked & non national capital city to become a "Mega City" in the world be in the United States?
Of course Chicago's seaports have a higher gross tonnage of shipments than its airport. The port of Chattanooga might well have greater shipping tonnage than Atlanta's airport, too.
I hope Atlanta's glory days won't come to an end, but I can't see it becoming a mega city because of the water issue, and it's in the Deep South (I hate to say it). Also, its image as a self proclaimed Black Mecca will soon hurt it basically because it SEEMS like it doesn't showcase its opportunities and great lifestyle for other races like it does for blacks. I'm not bashing; I'm just stating my opinion. I can see DFW becoming a mega city at 10 million or just shy of it because it's in Texas. Then again, at some point of time, it will slow down because it's landlocked and water may become an issue for a growing population. I'm not being bias, but I can see Houston growing more than what it is now, because it's still a little underrated and is growing like wildfires. Once the world and country REALLY REALIZE what it has to offer like they did Atlanta and other cities, then one can expect Houston to reach mega city status. Also, with Panama Canal expansion, as I was told, Houston will see major growth. Oh yeah! I can see Houston being flooded with Africans based on similar climates and landscapes that it shares with Africa from what I've heard. I really can't see Phoenix becoming a mega city because of the harsh desert terrain and mountains that encircle it. Also, with the Mexican issues and with the small amount of water compared to coast cities, Phoenix won't become a mega city too soon.
And in addition to that, the city sits on the worlds largest Fresh Water Source at Surface Level, hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands of miles of coastline existing for the Great Lakes. These people in this city don't even for one day think they're out in a landlocked land.
Chicago to the Atlantic:
You are right, don't consider Chicago landlocked at all in feel... And I know what the landlocked feel is spending some time in Colorado and Wyoming... actually sometimes gives me the creeps. (serious) Lake Michigan certainly feels a bit like a gulf/bay/sea...not the Pacific or Atlantic though. I don't really like being landlocked or high up in elevation. Gives me mild claustrophobia. The few times I've been to the mountains I couldn't wait to get back down to sea level. I grew up ON the beach, literally until I was about 10 and have always been fairly close. Wonder if it has anything to do with it. I go out by the lake here all the time.
Chicago actually has better water access and to me feels less landlocked than somewhere like Philly as the city is literally only the water. 1/3 of the population lives by the lake from Rogers Park to South Shore.
... Chicago uses their airport a whole lot more economically because of the transport of people and commerce it brings to them....
The reason I spot out Chicago as an example isn't to say they are totally landlocked, but their sea connection is limited. The route is meandering, long, and only allows vessels of a certain size. It is mostly use for more local-region trade.... kinda like you said with Canada.
Most of their trade is dependent on rail and highway (historically rail).
Chicago was primarily built on the access it had as a rail hub unlike say San Francisco, NYC, LA, Houston, and Miami, which historically are tied to the waterway access to people, resources, and consumer goods
Hince my point... growth follows transportation access.
(Also just a side note... overall tonnage is not normally a good way of examining air cargo... air cargo tends to be lighter, but sometimes high, value more time sensitive material.... Another expanded view too... is cargo of raw materials tends to be heavier and more dependent on rail/ship access, whereas cargo of already made consumer goods tends to be lighter and easily transported through containers via ship, rail or truck (often cheaper by truck). I just mention this... because these all factor into the functions of why an economy works the way it does. Atlanta is a huge white collar business center, because of its quick airport connections to Miami, the Texas Triangle, Chicago, and the DC-NYC corridor... its smack in the middle. Dallas tends to pick up alot of white collar jobs that need connections between the east and west coast. NYC/Boston tends to be a good place to locate a business that needs cheaper air freight options to Europe, which are high value and benefit their economies)
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Can a city become a "Mega City" if its landlocked and not a National Capital.
