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Old 03-20-2011, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,442 posts, read 4,872,747 times
Reputation: 2111

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I don't think it is anything new that people tend to reject the lifestyle of their parents generation. Every generation manages to express themselves in some way a little different from the others.

I think Gen Y has seen the worst of the effects of debt and after that nutty run on real estate for 10 years I can see why they view it as a turnoff. Furthermore, their parent ran to the suburbs where the houses were bigger. Bigger meant more to them, psychologically and socially. It also meant bigger utility bills, bigger cars, etc., which added to the insane debt. Really, it was kind of ignorant. I think I'm one of the few members of Gen X who sat here in my tiny apartment reading about the insanity, then taking off on weekend trips to the mountains and the coast because I wasn't spending all my money paying off loans. I don't think Gen Y is rejecting home ownership. I think they are rejecting the idea that spending all your income paying interest on loans means "success."


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Einstein View Post


You all can try to deny we aren't more intelligent all you want, but my generation is a click away from answering just about everything.

And the trend is to move back to the cities, the numbers are there...just like the numbers are there for every previous generation showing racism and 'White Flight' out of the city. Then moving to some generically manufactured utopia of low crime and great schools. Or so they say.
I don't think any generation is collectively more intelligent on the individual level than any other generation. What each subsequent generation does have is the knowledge from previous generations going back centuries which gives them the knowledge to come a step closer to answering a lot of questions.

White flight is still there, but it isn't purely white anymore. It is more of a middle-class flight, predominantly Asian and European (white) moving away from the same problems that have appeared in select suburban neighborhoods. The result has been gentrification of older areas, which is good, or for people who have more money and think buying a 2600 sq ft McMansion makes a statement that they are successful, they go out in the newburbs and buy in a gated community full of HOA CC&Rs.

 
Old 03-20-2011, 03:07 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,442 posts, read 4,872,747 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Einstein View Post
I'll also argue that my generation will be portable. The previous generations put way too much value in home ownership, to the point where they became so obsessed it caused an economic crash. My generation is more content with not having a 30 year old mortgage and being binded to a corporation that couldn't care less for them. We've got a different mindset. More frugal, efficient and as the random article above from another country stated...we're arrogant.

The economic crash had nothing to do with valuing home ownership. The problem is they didn't look at a house as a home. They looked at a house as an investment. A home is a place to live in. A secure place. A place you could pay off in 15 to 30 years. You bought a house and paid it off because it secured retirement. That is what people did prior to about 2000. Give it some time. Gen Y will be looking for houses. Gen Y is still young. Most people don't think about buying a house until they get married, or in the case of my generation (Gen X) which was the first to have any real amount of single people buying houses, I expect Gen Y to start looking at buying a house in their early 30s, although I think they will be searching for smaller houses.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:03 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,182,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Ah, yes. I remember those golden days when my contemporaries and I were going to save the world, too.
Yup. Instead you're going to run up a level of medicare debt that is historically unprecedented, die, and then pass it onto us.



Quote:
"McMansions" and suburbs do not necessarily go hand in hand. Y'all will soon learn that the world is not black and white. Good luck to you.
Because the assumption here is that we don't know already, right?

It's always great talking down to other people, isn't it? That's how most of these generational discussions go.

My favorite are the journalists who make claims about "Generation Y" that they cannot support with data. They just pull a stereotype straight out of their ass hole, which then becomes the basis of an entire article.

Last edited by le roi; 03-20-2011 at 06:15 AM..
 
Old 03-20-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: CasaMo
15,294 posts, read 7,146,445 times
Reputation: 16384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Einstein View Post
Did you miss the most important sentence of the article??


Quote:
"A house in the suburbs is not for them," Mr. Senden said. "At least not yet."
So I guess all hipster fantasies come to an end some day.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: USA
2,580 posts, read 3,433,349 times
Reputation: 2220
Gen X and Y for the most part can't afford McMansions due to the lack of decent jobs and age/experience discrimination.

It's worse for Gen Y, many of them will be living in the inner cities next to Section 8 housing.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Einstein View Post


You all can try to deny we aren't more intelligent all you want, but my generation is a click away from answering just about everything.

And the trend is to move back to the cities, the numbers are there...just like the numbers are there for every previous generation showing racism and 'White Flight' out of the city. Then moving to some generically manufactured utopia of low crime and great schools. Or so they say.
I see it's arrogance. Nice way to call older generations racist, too. Some of us were never IN the city, BTW. Most of my generation grew up in the burbs. Oh, and we were going to live in the city, too, and somehow "change the world, rearrange the world".

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Einstein View Post
For Generation Y, American dream becomes an apartment in the city - JSOnline

I'll also argue that my generation will be portable. The previous generations put way too much value in home ownership, to the point where they became so obsessed it caused an economic crash. My generation is more content with not having a 30 year old mortgage and being binded to a corporation that couldn't care less for them. We've got a different mindset. More frugal, efficient and as the random article above from another country stated...we're arrogant.
It's ignorance, too, ignorance of history. This is the same stuff my generation said.

I'll say this, you've got a lot to learn, buddy. Don't break your neck falling off your high horse. I'll make a prediction, too. Just like my generation, this generaion (Gen Y) will turn greedy and materialistic.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 10:33 AM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
4,635 posts, read 7,060,273 times
Reputation: 8468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian88 View Post
To get this thread back on track... I would say that the original article is pretty accurate about my generation. And to ease some of the inter-generational communication going on here, all this is about really, when it gets down to it, is personal preference and taste between the generations. Every generation brings with it a change in the living landscape. I noticed this early on in the town I grew up in... you can see physically the changes in lifestyle and home preferences of each generation going back to the late 1880's just by going from neighborhood to neighborhood in the order in which each neighborhood was built. Just because the younger generation doesn't want to continue the same type of development as their parents doesn't mean the parents who like the way they live should feel insulted.

Now, not everyone in every generation manages to be a part of creating the new generation's style, all the old houses from each generation end up in use still, but it's interesting to see how the usage of house styles changes over time. In my home town, for instance, there is the downtown with old neighborhoods of houses built in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... the streets are very walkable and bikable. Then after the generation that built those houses died out, people moved further away from downtown and into one-story ranch style houses. The old neighborhood of two-story houses became more derelict and inhabited by renters whilst the people with money built new in the suburbs. Then those suburbs became an integral part of the town because newer suburbs were built beyond that... with mcmansions and wannabe mcmansions as well those tight subdivisions where all the houses look the same, and all seem to look like they're made of plastic.

Well, I think that things with my generation are going to come full circle back to the old closest-to-downtown neighborhoods. I think once my generation is truly in power (right now everything in society is still really geared towards the boomers) then the city is going to be transformed a bit... renters will be forced out by owner-occupying families who want the walkability that those neighborhoods built before cars ever existed provides.

Now, my generation isn't doing this necessarily to 'save the world' or to 'revitalize the cities'... though many will say so, and many do want to do that, what they are really doing is just going with their preferences for how they want to live. Thus, the active go-getters of my generation will do it. The others will end up occupying whatever they can afford, much like currently those turn of the century houses are where poor people rent or buy. I think they will be forced into the ranch style houses once the current comfortably-middle-class owners of them die out and they aren't bought up by generation Y'ers who would much rather buy an earlier style house and renovate it as they go along.
While I think you are overgeneralizing a bit, depending on the region, city and particular neighborhood, what you are talking about certainly has taken place in more than a few cities just as you are predicting.

It is amazing how quickly it can happen if the city has taken a forceful interest in redeveloping downtown areas with both infrastructure and zoning upgrades that bring in major development.

We bought in a "streetcar suburb" neighborhood adjacent downtown that had really been considered ghetto a few short years before and was just on the edge of transitioning- but seemed like it yet could go either way. Just up the street was a crack ***** living in a run down apt. who would wander around our street and would tack up signs in her window to not disturb her unless it was "business" yikes! The city here also was making major development opportunities downtown around the same time and with the new ballpark the whole east section was transformed in about 8 years, also the underperforming elementary school in the neighborhood was turned into a specialized charter school, which I think made a huge difference.

Flash forward 15 years and our neighborhood and adjoining ones are considered hipster, dynamic areas full of restaurants and shops. Classic old homes are $600 s.f. and up and are snatched up quite quickly even in this economy by young couples and singles who strongly desire a settled, walkable place that is close to urban amenities. The former crack *****'s rundown place is now a French crepe/pannini bistro with new shops, wine bars and beer pubs along the same street that was deserted for decades. Now we couldn't imagine living anywhere else, we might not be as hip- pushing 50 as we are- but we can still hang with the 'kids' and certainly enjoy the new blood that the neighborhood has attracted.

It certainly hasn't happened in all cities and I don't know how necessarily generational it is, but there is a slice of society that will desire this type of lifestyle and will invest in those areas that either portend a shift towards it or are providing it now.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 11:29 AM
 
8,325 posts, read 14,058,543 times
Reputation: 4018
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
I think I'm one of the few members of Gen X who sat here in my tiny apartment reading about the insanity, then taking off on weekend trips to the mountains and the coast because I wasn't spending all my money paying off loans. I don't think Gen Y is rejecting home ownership. I think they are rejecting the idea that spending all your income paying interest on loans means "success."
This is key. One quote from an old editorial column in a punk zine I read maybe 25 years ago stuck with me--"While my friends worked overtime on the weekends so they could afford a cool car that sat parked in the parking lot of the factory, I took the bus to the beach."

I took a slightly different path--I'm not as much of a trip-taker, so I bought a pretty little house in a neighborhood I had wanted to live in since grade school. Because I didn't overextend myself, my house payment is about 20% of my income, and I have no other consumer debt. Having seen people get trapped in snarls of credit and debt, or having to work insane hours to maintain the trappings of middle-class life (new car, big house etc.) I had no interest in it.


Quote:
I don't think any generation is collectively more intelligent on the individual level than any other generation. What each subsequent generation does have is the knowledge from previous generations going back centuries which gives them the knowledge to come a step closer to answering a lot of questions.
Again, true. The columnist I quoted above was a Boomer, but very much counter to society's expectations at the time, even hippie counterculture expectations (he started Lookout! Records, the label where Green Day got their start.)
Quote:
White flight is still there, but it isn't purely white anymore. It is more of a middle-class flight, predominantly Asian and European (white) moving away from the same problems that have appeared in select suburban neighborhoods. The result has been gentrification of older areas, which is good, or for people who have more money and think buying a 2600 sq ft McMansion makes a statement that they are successful, they go out in the newburbs and buy in a gated community full of HOA CC&Rs.
One thing to keep in mind is that "white" isn't a racial term, but a social one. 100 years ago, Italians, Greeks, Jews, Portuguese and Slavs generally weren't considered "white" in the United States. But when these groups arrived, earlier groups like the Irish "became" white (they had previously been considered alien outsiders.) The boundaries of whiteness got stretched in the mid-20th century to include southern Europeans, and more recently Asians (at least from the industrialized Asian nations) are considered the "model minority" and included in that boundary. But in general, the groups considered "white" are also the groups considered to be "middle class"--even though plenty of whites (and Asians) are not middle class these days. But because that boundary is one of perception rather than reality, it isn't really a class boundary.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Anson,Maine
251 posts, read 156,992 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomzoom3 View Post
Gen X and Y for the most part can't afford McMansions due to the lack of decent jobs and age/experience discrimination.

It's worse for Gen Y, many of them will be living in the inner cities next to Section 8 housing.
They don't realize that they have been conditioned to become section 8 people.First thing to becoming a section 8 person is to refuse to leave a city when it is appearant that there is no other way for things to improve.
So when the populations increase the demand for welfare does also due to limited employment.
But then again the city people think they are entitled to work where they live.Kinda like a Chinese factory mentality.
 
Old 03-20-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 10,725,881 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
The economic crash had nothing to do with valuing home ownership. The problem is they didn't look at a house as a home. They looked at a house as an investment. A home is a place to live in. A secure place. A place you could pay off in 15 to 30 years. You bought a house and paid it off because it secured retirement. That is what people did prior to about 2000. Give it some time. Gen Y will be looking for houses. Gen Y is still young. Most people don't think about buying a house until they get married, or in the case of my generation (Gen X) which was the first to have any real amount of single people buying houses, I expect Gen Y to start looking at buying a house in their early 30s, although I think they will be searching for smaller houses.
All we want is a small house with a small yard, and we are looking to pay for it with a 15-year fixed loan. Lots of my peers are pretty cautious in this way.
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