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Old 04-29-2012, 09:36 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
46,009 posts, read 53,204,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post

The main problem with LINK is that it's tediously slow for a system that's designed to carry people many miles. Average speed is about 20 mph from SeaTac to Downtown. That's a lot of money to spend when buses are faster and cheaper. Isn't the whole point of separate grade that it's faster?
It's only slower than buses if the buses run express. Multiple local stops, especially once the whole network is completed is a benefit. And buses are often less reliable due to traffic randomness, while grade separation is more predictable.

Average speed of 20 mph is typical of grade separated transit excluding BART-like system with large stop spacing. I got 26.0 mph, though (36 minutes for 15.6 miles) The Canada is 28.5 mph. Are buses really going to be faster than that during rush hour? NYC subway is about 18-22 mph, though with few exceptions buses are rarely faster. I've been on long distance bus (no stops) going through local streets in Manhattan and a bicycle was faster than us. Moronic to run buses through local Manhattan streets, part of the reason I dislike taking the bus to the city.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
It's only slower than buses if the buses run express. Multiple local stops, especially once the whole network is completed is a benefit. And buses are often less reliable due to traffic randomness, while grade separation is more predictable.

Average speed of 20 mph is typical of grade separated transit excluding BART-like system with large stop spacing. I got 26.0 mph, though (36 minutes for 15.6 miles) The Canada is 28.5 mph. Are buses really going to be faster than that during rush hour? NYC subway is about 18-22 mph, though with few exceptions buses are rarely faster. I've been on long distance bus (no stops) going through local streets in Manhattan and a bicycle was faster than us. Moronic to run buses through local Manhattan streets, part of the reason I dislike taking the bus to the city.
That's the beauty of the bus. You can take the express or the neighborhood bus. And I wouldn't call BART's 1/4 mile stop spacing in DT San Francisco all that long. Maybe compared to the buses along Geary that infuriatingly stop every 600 feet... It's a concession. They could have done stop distances every 1/4 mile all the way, but who is going to take BART from Pittsburg if it takes two hours instead of less than one?

Or more relevantly. Why would you chose to take LINK from Lynnwood TC when it will take an hour over a bus that'll get there in 40 minutes? Why spend billions of dollars for something slower?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Just thought I'd bring you guys up to date on what's happening with metro Denver's light rail. (I know you've all been holding your breath.)

RTD board nixes FasTracks tax vote this year - The Denver Post

There will be no vote this fall.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:35 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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I'm thinking the incentive to build light rail would be higher if jobs were more concentrated in downtown Denver (I don't know Denver well, but from what I've read it seems like a city that does not concentrate a huge amount of its jobs in the center, for example compared to Calgary that I keep bringing up or even Seattle.)

How horrible is the traffic driving into Denver at rush hour? Can workers typically park their cars somewhere convenient to their jobs?
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:06 PM
 
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
That's the beauty of the bus. You can take the express or the neighborhood bus. And I wouldn't call BART's 1/4 mile stop spacing in DT San Francisco all that long. Maybe compared to the buses along Geary that infuriatingly stop every 600 feet... It's a concession. They could have done stop distances every 1/4 mile all the way, but who is going to take BART from Pittsburg if it takes two hours instead of less than one?

Or more relevantly. Why would you chose to take LINK from Lynnwood TC when it will take an hour over a bus that'll get there in 40 minutes? Why spend billions of dollars for something slower?
Because congestion is expected to increase on I-5? I've been stuck on I-5 on an "express" bus to Lynnwood before.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,259,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm thinking the incentive to build light rail would be higher if jobs were more concentrated in downtown Denver (I don't know Denver well, but from what I've read it seems like a city that does not concentrate a huge amount of its jobs in the center, for example compared to Calgary that I keep bringing up or even Seattle.)

How horrible is the traffic driving into Denver at rush hour? Can workers typically park their cars somewhere convenient to their jobs?
There are several employment "nodes" in metro Denver. One is downtown (Century Link and others); another is Broomfield, northwest of Denver (Level 3, Oracle and others); the Denver Tech Center, a small portion of southest Denver and continuing south (Agilent and others); and Boulder to the northwest (IBM, NOAA, NCAR, the U of CO and others), and Aurora, to the east (University of Colorado Health Science Center and others).

Rush hour traffic can be tight, but usually moves unless there is an accident. I don't know about parking. Lots of people who work downtown do take public transit. The Tech Center and Interlocken at Broomfield provide parking. Some places in Boulder do and some don't. You have to pay to park at the HSC, but you can buy a pass of some sort.

I like the idea of decentralized employment. There's no reason that a metro of 2 1/2 million people should funnel everyone, or almost everyone, into downtown for work. These other places give people more options for living closer to their jobs as well.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There are several employment "nodes" in metro Denver. One is downtown (Century Link and others); another is Broomfield, northwest of Denver (Level 3, Oracle and others); the Denver Tech Center, a small portion of southest Denver and continuing south (Agilent and others); and Boulder to the northwest (IBM, NOAA, NCAR, the U of CO and others), and Aurora, to the east (University of Colorado Health Science Center and others).

Rush hour traffic can be tight, but usually moves unless there is an accident. I don't know about parking. Lots of people who work downtown do take public transit. The Tech Center and Interlocken at Broomfield provide parking. Some places in Boulder do and some don't. You have to pay to park at the HSC, but you can buy a pass of some sort.

I like the idea of decentralized employment. There's no reason that a metro of 2 1/2 million people should funnel everyone, or almost everyone, into downtown for work. These other places give people more options for living closer to their jobs as well.
Since I don't have the option of driving, I have a different point of view. Youngstown still has a fairly centralized business district. If I lose my job, I still have other potential employers that are also easily accessible in the same general location. If there are nodes of employment, they still might be accessible via public transit--if it is good. But it's more likely that my commute will become cumbersome with transfers, waiting, etc. It's much less likely that my residence would be equally accessible to all of these decentralized nodes, as it is to the central business district.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,259,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Since I don't have the option of driving, I have a different point of view. Youngstown still has a fairly centralized business district. If I lose my job, I still have other potential employers that are also easily accessible in the same general location. If there are nodes of employment, they still might be accessible via public transit--if it is good. But it's more likely that my commute will become cumbersome with transfers, waiting, etc. It's much less likely that my residence would be equally accessible to all of these decentralized nodes, as it is to the central business district.
Youngstown is also a much smaller metro area. There are probably more jobs in downtown Denver than downtown Youngstown.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,496 posts, read 9,442,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Youngstown is also a much smaller metro area. There are probably more jobs in downtown Denver than downtown Youngstown.
Yes, about 4-5 times smaller.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:43 AM
 
Location: NYC
7,305 posts, read 13,451,532 times
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It's gotten to the point now in Baltimore where so many businesses have located along the Beltway (a highway for which there really is no alternate route) that it can take far longer to bypass the city then to drive through it. My friend's 20 mile beltway drive averages an hour and up to 2 hours on a holiday weekend. People who link up to the beltway from some other congested routes have it even worse.

Meanwhile downtown office vacancy is at about 20% and far less traffic in most of the city. What we lack, however, is much in the way of rapid transit, or even efficient bus routes for commuters. Of course most would still want to drive anyway, but I'd think that sooner or later the parking costs downtown will not be any less desirable than sitting on the beltway all morning and afternoon...
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