Streetcar systems in planning (houses, park, Louisville, walkable)

[UNC4Me]

At the end of June, in an unexpected bi-partisan 6-5 vote, the Charlotte City Council voted down a $926 million capital plan that included $119 million for extending the planned street car line. Members were unwilling to support the plan which included a 3.6% property tax increase to fund this and other projects. The city is continuing to work on a capital plan that would be passable, but it's unlikely the plan will include funds for expanding the proposed street car line. There is a 1.5 mile line planned for uptown funded by a federal grant of $25 million.

[robabeatle]

BTW, The Tucson streetcar is being built. Downtown is ripped up as they install the tracks. ALong with this, the University of Arizona now has student housing along the route and downtown. I guess the thinking is that if no one else uses it at least the students will use it and maybe it will blossom from there.

Tucson Modern Streetcar

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by bu2

Streetcars don't have significantly higher capacity than articulated buses. With all the extra capital costs you would have more than you could ever spend advertising properly a bus route.

They are basically a superexpensive inflexible bus designed to make it difficult to drive by clogging up streets.

The Toronto mayor in transit friendly Canada declared an "end to the war on cars" by cancelling all their streetcar projects. He is continuing to pursue worthwhile transit investments, including subways.

so you complain about the high costs of streetcars compared to buses.
and yet you approve of subways, which are 10 times the cost of streetcars?

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by bu2

They ARE inherently slower. They make stops to pick up people, you have to wait for the bus/streetcar to arrive and you have to get to the stop.

at least you're getting exercise walking to and from the transit stops. america is the most automobile-centered country in the world, with the most overweight and obese people in the world. I don't think that's a coincidence. it probably helps explain why people have so many health problems and why healthcare costs are the highest in the world. the autocentric-lifestyle is not good for your health and people spend way too much time in their cars. we also have the highest number of fatalities caused by automobile accidents than anywhere in the world so besides the health issues it can just kill you outright at anytime.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

at least you're getting exercise walking to and from the transit stops. america is the most automobile-centered country in the world, with the most overweight and obese people in the world. I don't think that's a coincidence. it probably helps explain why people have so many health problems and why healthcare costs are the highest in the world. the autocentric-lifestyle is not good for your health and people spend way too much time in their cars. we also have the highest number of fatalities caused by automobile accidents than anywhere in the world so besides the health issues it can just kill you outright at anytime.

The highest rates of obesity in this country are found in the inner cities. Suburbanites have the best health stats of any group. We have had numerous threads about these topics. You can advocate for streetcars all you want, but that is not a valid argument.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by Katiana

The highest rates of obesity in this country are found in the inner cities. Suburbanites have the best health stats of any group. We have had numerous threads about these topics. You can advocate for streetcars all you want, but that is not a valid argument.

All true, but I will add that this is more of a function of income and poverty indicators than transport.

However, transport projects can improve quality of life (if tranportation becomes faster, safer and/or more reliable), which can have positive impacts on health. Connecting a poor area to jobs in an aflluent area, where no realistic connection existed before, can lead to a positive health impact.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

All true, but I will add that this is more of a function of income and poverty indicators than transport.

However, transport projects can improve quality of life (if tranportation becomes faster, safer and/or more reliable), which can have positive impacts on health. Connecting a poor area to jobs in an aflluent area, where no realistic connection existed before, can lead to a positive health impact.

I agree. However, I have read studies that showed high obesity rates in "walkable" neighborhoods. I'm just saying, correlation does not equal causastion. I'd rather see streetcar advocacy focus on the real benefits of streetcars. Leave the obesity epidemic out of it.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I agree. However, I have read studies that showed high obesity rates in "walkable" neighborhoods. I'm just saying, correlation does not equal causastion. I'd rather see streetcar advocacy focus on the real benefits of streetcars. Leave the obesity epidemic out of it.

You're right that correlation does not equal causation, especially about this. However, I think the obesity epidemic is relevant to just about every decision we make right now... land use, transportation, farm bill, school lunches, etc, etc. It's a huge issue (no pun intended) and deserves to be included in discussions like this.

http://health-equity.pitt.edu/910/1/06pm.pdf

Didn't read the whole thing, but "[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
[LEFT]additional walking
associated with transit use could represent 25.7, 32.4, or 39.0
additional kcal expended each day. At a 50% efficiency rate,
those numbers translate into 12.9, 16.2, and 19.5 fewer kcal
stored per day. The distribution of excess energy stored reported
by [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]Hill et al. (2003) [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]reveals that these levels of additional
expenditure could eliminate weight gain in approximately 43%,[/LEFT]
50%, or 60% of the population."

Just looking at the respondant data, it's clear that improvished communities were not well represented here. [/SIZE][/SIZE]

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

All true, but I will add that this is more of a function of income and poverty indicators than transport.

However, transport projects can improve quality of life (if tranportation becomes faster, safer and/or more reliable), which can have positive impacts on health. Connecting a poor area to jobs in an aflluent area, where no realistic connection existed before, can lead to a positive health impact.

the poor are always a convenient scapegoat aren't they? its easy to blame all our problems on those who are least able to defend themselves.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

the poor are always a convenient scapegoat aren't they? its easy to blame all our problems on those who are least able to defend themselves.

That isn't my point at all. But I agree that the poor people are punished and villified a lot in this country.