Streetcar systems in planning (suburb, class, environment, problems)

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

That isn't my point at all. But I agree that the poor people are punished and villified a lot in this country.

I'm just saying, in general that the poor are often scapegoated.

whenever I go to a suburban neighborhood I rarely see people walking outside. doesnt matter if its the weekday or weekend. that indicates to me people are spending all their time indoors or in their cars. you see plenty of cars on the streets but you dont see many pedestrians and cyclists. so how do they keep in shape? some of these studies don't seem very credible to me, and may have been biased. the idea that suburbanites are all skinny and perfectly healthy is not plausible to me. I don't see how people can be in shape when they're all in their homes or driving around in their cars all day long.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

I'm just saying, in general that the poor are often scapegoated.

whenever I go to a suburban neighborhood I rarely see people walking outside. doesnt matter if its the weekday or weekend. that indicates to me people are spending all their time indoors or in their cars. you see plenty of cars on the streets but you dont see many pedestrians and cyclists. so how do they keep in shape? some of these studies don't seem very credible to me, and may have been biased. the idea that suburbanites are all skinny and perfectly healthy is not plausible to me. I don't see how people can be in shape when they're all in their homes or driving around in their cars all day long.

So when the research doesn't show what you want, the research is invalid? Sort of a new variant of "kill the messenger"?

I'm all for working on the "obesity epidemic". It's way more complicated than it seems at first glance, and it's not the topic of this forum.

[munchitup]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

I'm just saying, in general that the poor are often scapegoated.

whenever I go to a suburban neighborhood I rarely see people walking outside. doesnt matter if its the weekday or weekend. that indicates to me people are spending all their time indoors or in their cars. you see plenty of cars on the streets but you dont see many pedestrians and cyclists. so how do they keep in shape? some of these studies don't seem very credible to me, and may have been biased. the idea that suburbanites are all skinny and perfectly healthy is not plausible to me. I don't see how people can be in shape when they're all in their homes or driving around in their cars all day long.

Going to the gym is how most people exercise....
(I choose to live in a walkable place where I can walk to the gym - double exercise!)

In the suburbs a lot of the pedestrian "activity" is people jogging or walking their dogs.

Are you really under the impression that the only thing people do in the suburbs is drive from home to work and back, maybe with a stop at the local Wal-Mart for groceries (provided they can get a front row parking spot)? And once they get home they drink themselves to death out of boredom and isolation?

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by Katiana

So when the research doesn't show what you want, the research is invalid? Sort of a new variant of "kill the messenger"?

I'm all for working on the "obesity epidemic". It's way more complicated than it seems at first glance, and it's not the topic of this forum.

but there are other studies out there that links health and weight problems to suburban sprawl.
for example:
As Suburbs Grow, So Do Waistlines - New York Times

[cisco kid]

Originally Posted by munchitup

Going to the gym is how most people exercise....
(I choose to live in a walkable place where I can walk to the gym - double exercise!)

I know lots of people with gym memberships who don't use it very much. some people can go to the gym everyday, but lots people can't because its not easy to stay motivated. going to the gym is an artificial form of exercise. personally I don't like exercising indoors very much. I prefer to get my exercise under the sun. you need plenty of sunlight everyday to stay healthy which is absent in the gym. working out under rows of fluorescent lighting in a big warehouse-like building with no windows, doesn't seem very appealing to me.

I think people are much more motivated and inclined to do something when they have to do it. for example, if they have to walk or bike to school or work, they will do it.or if they have to walk to the grocery store, they will do it. but if there's a choice between sitting in front of your TV or going to the gym, then most people will rather sit in front of the TV.

Originally Posted by munchitup

In the suburbs a lot of the pedestrian "activity" is people jogging or walking their dogs.

one of the worst things about walking in a suburban neighborhood is getting barked at by all the yard dogs. people in the suburbs like to keep their dogs in the front yard behind a gate so everytime you walk by a house chances are there's going to be a dog lying in wait to surprise and scare the crap out of you as you walk by with their barking. I dont live in the suburbs anymore because if a dog ever barks at me like that again I swear to god I might shoot him. I think 95% of the dogs I see in the burbs are the little yappy ones which are the worst, they bark like crazy at the slightest little thing. the bigger dogs are okay, they tend to be a lot friendlier and mellower. bigger dogs seem to be better at distinguishing between a stranger who is a non-threat and one who is a real threat. but unfortunately dog owners tend to have only the annoying little yappers who have no such ability. they will bark and attack any person who isn't their owner. sorry for ranting but the damn little things should be outlawed IMO.

Originally Posted by munchitup

Are you really under the impression that the only thing people do in the suburbs is drive from home to work and back, maybe with a stop at the local Wal-Mart for groceries (provided they can get a front row parking spot)? And once they get home they drink themselves to death out of boredom and isolation?

if you live in the burbs what else is there to do in your spare time then what you just mentioned? there's not much to do so people just lock themsleves in after work, sit and vegetate in front of their 500 channel TV set or computer. americans have the least vacation time and most work hours in the developed world, so they might be too tired and stressed from work to do do anything else. especially when you're coming home from a grueling commute in traffic every day, that really wears you out.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by munchitup

Going to the gym is how most people exercise....
(I choose to live in a walkable place where I can walk to the gym - double exercise!)

In the suburbs a lot of the pedestrian "activity" is people jogging or walking their dogs.

Are you really under the impression that the only thing people do in the suburbs is drive from home to work and back, maybe with a stop at the local Wal-Mart for groceries (provided they can get a front row parking spot)? And once they get home they drink themselves to death out of boredom and isolation?

Exactly! That is the stereotype that people have of life in the suburbs. The fact that people actually believe this tripe is amazing.

In my suburban city, there is a public recreation center that is hugely popular. Also, in the cool of the morning/evening, there are tons of people out walking their dogs, or just taking walks. Even in winter, people are out walking. We have a great parks and trails system, and they're almost always busy.

Originally Posted by cisco kid

but there are other studies out there that links health and weight problems to suburban sprawl.
for example:
As Suburbs Grow, So Do Waistlines - New York Times

If you actually read this article, it's not as cut and dried as you are implying.

Originally Posted by cisco kid

I know lots of people with gym memberships who don't use it very much. some people can go to the gym everyday, but lots people can't because its not easy to stay motivated. going to the gym is an artificial form of exercise. personally I don't like exercising indoors very much. I prefer to get my exercise under the sun. you need plenty of sunlight everyday to stay healthy which is absent in the gym. working out under rows of fluorescent lighting in a big warehouse-like building with no windows, doesn't seem very appealing to me.

I think people are much more motivated and inclined to do something when they have to do it. for example, if they have to walk or bike to school or work, they will do it.or if they have to walk to the grocery store, they will do it. but if there's a choice between sitting in front of your TV or going to the gym, then most people will rather sit in front of the TV.




one of the worst things about walking in a suburban neighborhood is getting barked at by all the yard dogs. people in the suburbs like to keep their dogs in the front yard behind a gate so everytime you walk by a house chances are there's going to be a dog lying in wait to surprise and scare the crap out of you as you walk by with their barking. I dont live in the suburbs anymore because if a dog ever barks at me like that again I swear to god I might shoot him. I think 95% of the dogs I see in the burbs are the little yappy ones which are the worst, they bark like crazy at the slightest little thing. the bigger dogs are okay, they tend to be a lot friendlier and mellower. bigger dogs seem to be better at distinguishing between a stranger who is a non-threat and one who is a real threat. but unfortunately dog owners tend to have only the annoying little yappers who have no such ability. they will bark and attack any person who isn't their owner. sorry for ranting but the damn little things should be outlawed IMO.










if you live in the burbs what else is there to do in your spare time then what you just mentioned? there's not much to do so people just lock themsleves in after work, sit and vegetate in front of their 500 channel TV set or computer. americans have the least vacation time and most work hours in the developed world, so they might be too tired and stressed from work to do do anything else. especially when you're coming home from a grueling commute in traffic every day, that really wears you out.

Last night, in my suburban city, my DH and I joined hundreds of people who went to a city park to listen to a free concert by a local band. There are four of these, every summer.

City of Louisville, Colorado - Event Calendar

Tonight, we are going to a large performing arts center in another suburban city to see a pops concert by the Colorado Symphony Orchestra.

Arvada Center for the Arts and Humanities: Colorado Symphony - Tribute to Arthur Fiedler & The Boston Pops

If we weren't doing that, we might do this instead:
City of Louisville, Colorado - Event Calendar

This is every Friday night in the summer, with a band, food booths, craft booths, beer, etc.

We have a local theater group, a movie theater, numerous restaurants, and some shopping. Not everyone commutes to downtown Denver; I work in town, and many work close-by.

[cisco kid]

Sounds like fun. Hope you enjoy yourself.

[wburg]

Re little yappy dogs: I see more small dogs in cities--they are better suited to small yards and small houses. Occasionally you see city dwellers with big dogs, but little dogs, and cats, seem to predominate, at least where I live, while when I go out to the burbs I see a lot more big dogs.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

Sounds like fun. Hope you enjoy yourself.

It was fun. There were a few moments of excitement, not good when two people in the audience collapsed, probably from the heat. It was in an outdoor concert hall, and it got up to 93 yesterday; was still 86 at 8PM, about when these people collapsed.

Originally Posted by wburg

Re little yappy dogs: I see more small dogs in cities--they are better suited to small yards and small houses. Occasionally you see city dwellers with big dogs, but little dogs, and cats, seem to predominate, at least where I live, while when I go out to the burbs I see a lot more big dogs.

In my burb, there are all size of pets, big dogs, little dogs, cats. Maybe that is the difference. We have two cats.

[nei]

Originally Posted by cisco kid

whenever I go to a suburban neighborhood I rarely see people walking outside. doesnt matter if its the weekday or weekend. that indicates to me people are spending all their time indoors or in their cars. you see plenty of cars on the streets but you dont see many pedestrians and cyclists. so how do they keep in shape? some of these studies don't seem very credible to me, and may have been biased. the idea that suburbanites are all skinny and perfectly healthy is not plausible to me. I don't see how people can be in shape when they're all in their homes or driving around in their cars all day long.

Agree with the (almost) no one walks in the suburbs, in the sense as a transportation mode. Was with some visitors from the UK and they remarked a number of times how few people were walking while driving on commercial road. And yes, you get people walking around residential neighborhoods (at least where I grew up) but the amount of people walking on commercial streets is small, much smaller than the amount of cars going on streets. The US stands out among developed countries in low use of trips done by foot. Since that chart compares entire urban areas, the US amount would be even lower if newer suburbs were included.

But in pedestrian / transit friendly areas, the day to day amount of walking required isn't big enough to be a large calorie burner. Walk a couple blocks to transit stop, walk a couple more blocks from transit stop to work. Walk 5-10 mins to grocery store a few days a week. Healthier, but not large enough to swamp other factors.

Re: Katiana: Isn't Colorado one of the healthiest states in the country? Suburban Colorado is probably one of the "fitter" places in the country, or at least that's my image of it.