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I could find a number of suburban examples like that, too. But they're all old (pre-World War II / pre auto-suburb) or at least from the old part of town. They don't really build them like that anymore...
The commercial district along this road might be post-war:
^^These downtowns are old. However, there are many downtowns that have sort of dried up and blown away, while these have lasted. The once bustling downtown area of my hometown looks like a ghost town. In part, that is due to the steel bust of the early 80s, but even before then, everything had moved out to the malls. There are also some suburbs with no downtown area, such as Wheat Ridge, CO (one of the oldest burbs in the metro area).
I think the difference in the town where I live now, Louisville, is that there is a big interest on the part of city government in keeping downtown viable. For example, shortly before we moved here, they built a new city hall in downtown, and more recently when the library needed to expand out of city hall, they located it downtown. They built a band shell on a vacant lot just east of downtown. In the summer the Chamber of Commerce sponsors free concerts there, and in the winter it's a warming hut for an outdoor skating rink. My niece thinks the rink is very "Norman Rockwellish", and it is. There is an outdoor pool just west of downtown, and an old school building next to the pool has been converted into an arts center. There is a small theater in it, and they also hold art exhibits a couple times a year. A lot of suburbs are built around an old area. There are also some suburbs with no downtown area, such as Wheat Ridge, CO (one of the oldest burbs in the metro area).
Golden has a university, Colorado School of Mines, which seems to help the downtown.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-17-2011 at 04:56 PM..
When did Taco Bell and 7-Eleven become a metric for the surburbs and an indicator of how suburbs are bad?
Well, I'm not sure who deemed it so...
but as such chains are ubiquitous with the 'burbs and these two in particular are the worst of the worst of such chains...
it seems reasonable rhetoric for the purpose.
Well, I'm not sure who deemed it so...
but as such chains are ubiquitous with the 'burbs and these two in particular are the worst of the worst of such chains...
it seems reasonable rhetoric for the purpose.
hth
I don't know about everyone else's city, but there are at least 7 7-Elevens right in Denver (I suspect more, but it's hard to tell from google) and at least 15 Taco Bells. I am talking within city limits.
Here's various types of commercial areas that aren't quite big box near the suburb I'm from.
Bronte Village: this commercial area is pre-WWII, but the buildings are almost all post-WWII. Many parts of it look like a traditional North American small-town downtown.
Kerr Street. This is a commercial street near the downtown of my suburb's (Oakville). In 1941, Oakville had 4100 people, and the town initially grew on the East side of Sixteen Mile Creek. Kerr street is on the West side, and I'm guessing the area was urbanized shortly after WWII. The buildings look to be form about that era too. By 1957, there were many shops there already.
Oakville Entertainment Centrum. Basically a lifestyle centre type development, I'm not sure how old, but it was there when I moved to Oakville 11 years ago. It has a pedestrian area surrounded by businesses and restaurants surrounded by parking. You'd drive there, but once you're there it's decently nice.
Glenashton Plaza. A typical small local commercial plaza with the typical retail assortment of a variety store, doctor/dentist, pizza, dry cleaner and day care across from a high school. This is the kind of place older kids might walk/bike to. These are very common in suburban Toronto and often also have video stores, nail/hair dressers and ethnic restaurants. In Oakville, these serve an area with a radius of 0.5-1 miles.
Foxcreek Mall. A typical large commercial plaza. From the road, it doesn't look much better than a big box store, but these do have a lot of small independent retailers. They are often connected to the local streets by a sidewalk, so you don't have to cross a parking lot to get there. In Oakville, they cover an area of about 1-2 miles in radius.
Cooksville. This is typical of early post-WWII suburban Toronto with 2-3 story commercial buildings with a bit of parking (but not a sea of parking) at the front with lots of independent - often ethnic retail.
Then you have places like downtown Oakville which started growing before WWII, but continued growing up until today. There's more than a dozen of these historic little downtowns in suburban Toronto, most suburbs have one.
Speers Road. Basically retail, office and warehouses/light manufacturing mixed together. These aren't really nicer than big box, but I guess if I'm going to talk about everything that's not big box, this is an important category. They often have multiple businesses in one building.
Greensborough Village. A typical mixed use building. This one's in a new somewhat new urbanist subdivision, but these are being built in established neighbourhoods too, typically in undeveloped sites or replacing lower density retail.
And then there's shopping malls, which I think are still better than big box areas. Around here, they've very well served by transit with many of them having condos being built around them. So there is potential for the surface parking to be built up.
So a lot of the retail is not big box, and a lot of it isn't chains either. It's really just the big box, shopping malls and stand-alone (ie a single business surrounded by parking) commercial areas that are dominated by chains, and those make up maybe 40% of retail in my area.
I can't seem to get this to load right. You can see it if you click on the thumbnail; you can also go to the satellite view.
Happy now?
Thanks for the example. A few comments:
The buildings here look a bit more inviting because they go up to the sidewalk and aren't surrounded by giant parking lots, features which you typically see in the traditional urban downtown areas. I see some improvements, but I wouldn't call it 'beautiful' to look at. There's not enough to distinguish it from your typical suburban crudscape....lets just say its less ugly.
Problems: the asphalt streets and concrete sidewalks, sidewalks too narrow, buildings only one-story high, lack of mixed-use, very plain, utilitarian building design, lack of light rail or public transportation, to name a few.
Problems: the asphalt streets and concrete sidewalks
Now you have a problem with asphalt streets and concrete sidewalks? I guess, then, you have a problem with 99 percent of the streets -- urban and suburban alike -- in this country.
It must be so hard to achieve your idea of perfection! Is there anything that does?
Quote:
lack of light rail or public transportation
How could you have missed that big ol' bus in the middle of the street?
Last edited by Ohiogirl81; 10-18-2011 at 06:41 AM..
Reason: voices told me to
The buildings here look a bit more inviting because they go up to the sidewalk and aren't surrounded by giant parking lots, features which you typically see in the traditional urban downtown areas. I see some improvements, but I wouldn't call it 'beautiful' to look at. There's not enough to distinguish it from your typical suburban crudscape....lets just say its less ugly.
Problems: the asphalt streets and concrete sidewalks, sidewalks too narrow, buildings only one-story high, lack of mixed-use, very plain, utilitarian building design, lack of light rail or public transportation, to name a few.
This is a city of 20,000 people, a former coal mining town. Why would you expect huge multi-story buildings here? There are a few two story buildings, btw, like the bus, you just missed sight of them. Besides, the Rocky Mountains are to the west, and most folks are very protective of their mountain views. A few years back, there was a big flap about a taller building; until then, there had been an unwritten agreement to stop at two stories b/c of the mountains. Sometimes it's good to play with a full deck (of knowledge).
In addition to a big ole bus in the picture, here's the bus schedule:
One good way to make commercial districts more pedestrian friendly is to put the shop fronts facing right next to the sidewalk and the parking behind the stores, instead of to walk through a sea of parking and seeing large blank spaces.
This is a city of 20,000 people, a former coal mining town. Why would you expect huge multi-story buildings here?
My city has 30,000 people (really less, because the city limits include some rural areas). Almost all the commercial buildings near the center are 3, sometimes 4 stories. Retail on the bottom, offices or apartments on the other floors.
Houses are mostly 2-3 stories. I didn't realize one story houses were so common until I went on this forum. I was in the Pacific Northwest for part of the summer and saw a lot of one story houses. Must be a western (and maybe midwestern thing).
The downtown of my city is probably the same age as the downtown of Louisville. But it hasn't grown much since, so most of the city is the old part.
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I guess, then, you have a problem with 99 percent of the streets -- urban and suburban alike -- in this country.
