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in any case, if 1/8 acre lots are so common in the midwest, and work well, maybe what we need to do is persuade our East Coast suburbanites of the desirability of zoning for more of them.
That I like a solution is not undermined by the fact that some other part of the USA already does it - its SUPPORTED by that.
No, in small towns, and also large cities like Minneapolis and Cleveland and their older suburbs. New suburbs are as far "behind" (that is, they're still building on huge lots) as they are back east.
I am agreeing with you, the fact that suburbs are returning to smaller lots is great. I just wanted to poke a little fun at people who slap some fancy term on what some people have known works all along.
in any case, if 1/8 acre lots are so common in the midwest, and work well, maybe what we need to do is persuade our East Coast suburbanites of the desirability of zoning for more of them.
That I like a solution is not undermined by the fact that some other part of the USA already does it - its SUPPORTED by that.
I've gotten the impression that Northen Virginia is especially low-density even for east coast standards. At least when I took a friend from Northern Virginia for a bike ride in Long Island (NW Suffolk close to the water) and was surprised at the "small" lot sizes compared to back home.
No, in small towns, and also large cities like Minneapolis and Cleveland and their older suburbs. New suburbs are as far "behind" (that is, they're still building on huge lots) as they are back east.
I am agreeing with you, the fact that suburbs are returning to smaller lots is great. I just wanted to poke a little fun at people who slap some fancy term on what some people have known works all along.
I thought it was understood this was about contemporary development patterns.
I've gotten the impression that Northen Virginia is especially low-density even for east coast standards. At least when I took a friend from Northern Virginia for a bike ride in Long Island (NW Suffolk close to the water) and was surprised at the "small" lot sizes compared to back home.
NoVa outside Alex and Arlington is virtually all post war construction, and unlike LI, philly, etc was built with no commuter rail influences. I think that apart its not that atypical - yes there are houses on really large lots scattered about (odd when someones circa 1955 one acre rural spread is shouting distance to 1970s era garden apts, condos, strip malls, etc) but mostly its the standard 1/4 acre lots - which no one has yet convinced me are NOT the standard for post war suburban SFHs across the USA.
Sorry if this was covered on one of the previous 5 pages...
a problem we are having here in LA, is there is a push to build high density condos all over the place. The thought is that we'll reduce sprawl and have more walkable neighborhoods.
The problem is that there is not sufficient infrastructure in LA to truly live car-free... so what we are ending up with is higher population density of folks who may walk for some stuff, but still use cars. This adds more cars to already congested surface streets and freeways. The result is an increase in local pollution, increase in congestion, longer travel times, etc... exactly the opposite of the intended effect.
Density has to be done right, otherwise it's actually worse than sprawl
Im tempted to ask in the Denver forum. Here in NoVa (and I think most of the US) 1/4 acre is the standard size of a suburban lot (with many larger than that, of course) Here a one fifth of an acre lot or less is considered almost a neo urbanist thingie, with folks asking what the advantages of that (in new development) are over a town house.
Go ahead. Don't accuse me of fabricating again, either.
Big lots are not the norm in CA, either, nor in some suburbs of Minneapolis. There's a whole world out there beyond NOVA and Brooklyn.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-21-2011 at 12:57 PM..
The problem is that there is not sufficient infrastructure in LA to truly live car-free... so what we are ending up with is higher population density of folks who may walk for some stuff, but still use cars. This adds more cars to already congested surface streets and freeways. The result is an increase in local pollution, increase in congestion, longer travel times, etc... exactly the opposite of the intended effect.
Very rarely does transit infrastucture come ahead or in time for demand. The problems usually have to exist before the idea is popular enough to take effect. If that idea is construction of any sort of rail, well, it's going to be another 8-15 years until it's up and running.
I think LA has expanded as far out as it can, no? Right or wrong, higher density is probably inevitable. Think about the money to be made by putting 5 dwellings on a piece of property that formerly had one. Who wouldn't do it to make a buck?
NoVa outside Alex and Arlington is virtually all post war construction, and unlike LI, philly, etc was built with no commuter rail influences. I think that apart its not that atypical - yes there are houses on really large lots scattered about (odd when someones circa 1955 one acre rural spread is shouting distance to 1970s era garden apts, condos, strip malls, etc) but mostly its the standard 1/4 acre lots - which no one has yet convinced me are NOT the standard for post war suburban SFHs across the USA.
Yea, maybe the biggest difference between the DC metro and the other large northeast metros is that it has had large suburban population growth post-1980, while the others have been rather stagnant (and some have actually grown more in the urban core than the suburbs, like NYC). So NYC / Boston / Philly suburbs have relatively more small lots because they are older.
I think of DC as a mix between the northeast and south, with the high transit usage and walkable inner suburbs of the northeast, but with lots of very new, low-density suburbs like the south.
If you got to the west coast, you'll find that 1/4 acre suburbs are not the norm. There are low density suburbs, but there a lot of suburbs with houses that seem to me on surprisingly small lots for recent construction. Outside of the downtowns, the lots size in metro areas doesn't vary much; the density distribution feels oddly flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
There's a whole world out there beyond NOVA and Brooklyn.
But why should I be familiar with cities and suburbs thousands of miles away? I have no connections there. I've spent more time in London than any non-Northeastern city. And London isn't much further from me than California. I feel like we ignore places in other countries a bit.
Go ahead. Don't accuse me of fabricating again, either.
Big lots are not the norm in CA, either, nor in some suburbs of Minneapolis. There's a whole world out there beyond NOVA and Brooklyn.
there arent many houses on quarter acre lots in Brooklyn
Ive also lived in Jax and baltimore, and quater acre lots were the standard for new suburban SFHs in both. And we have a poster reporting here that they are the norm for new SFHs in the midwest as well.
Big lots are not the norm in CA, either, nor in some suburbs of Minneapolis.
thats great. So if some of us encourage metro areas in the NE and south to have more houses on 1/8th acre lots, do you have an objection to that?
I am still puzzled at the hostility being expressed on this thread.
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