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That is amazing. Here in America we have many problems all over that get in the way of infrastructure like subways creation and efficiency. In Russia, they benefit from central planning, which I think if it is utilized in the right way is a very good thing.
But at the same time there are many bad things that can come from Soviet-style central planning. While they can have a better subway system than New York, London, or Tokyo, it can come at a high price. Like if the government wanted to build high density TOD in your quiet nice neighborhood and connect it to a centrally planned subway in Russia, you just cannot protest. NIMBYism will not work in Russia or China, which I find is very important. A big reason why things we in America don't have an amazing public transit system is because people can have the ability to block development that prevents the government from doing whatever it wants at the expense of existing residents. I am very glad for NIMBYs who block development, without them our cities will be destroyed by urban renewal but because of it NIMBYs prevent infrastructure improvements too.
In contrast to Russia, America has a lot of politics involving companies and even municipalities competing with each other, trying to one up the other. Like New York City for a long time has not even thought about extending subway service over the pond, and there is a lot of bickering back and forth. Chris Christie I think blocked an attempt for NYC to extend the subway into Jersey for some reason. Maybe they feel it is competition, where providing transit service will somehow ruin how much money their city can get from tax base and jobs, and/or something company related over who gets the deal or whatever. The Soviets would have looked at the whole picture and not favor one part over the other, for the good of the people and efficiency. That is one thing I can appreciate about Russia (at that time during the Soviet-era) is with central planning, none of the politics and money deals are involved between competing municipalities thinking about only their own city or private companies competing ruining the whole unity of things.
Despite Russia though having had the benefit of central planning, I still think it is bad for people because people cannot democratically stop their neighborhood from changing. As much as we hate it when NIMBYs do something like prevent a subway or mass transit from being extended into their town, that will make people happier than having it be done against their will.
It isn't the issue of "central planning." We have that here, but we have a lot of barriers to accomplishing anything. First is the cost. In China or during the Soviet Union, they were simply built and people were paid whatever they were paid. Here we have a ton of regulations. Union "market" wages must be paid in many areas, per city ordinances or contractual agreements with regional governments. And then it isn' a matter of just simply hiring people at union rates. Federal funding requires transportation districts to hire minority businesses to do the work, or at the very least, a non-minority business has to employ some number of minorities to comply with these laws. The eliminates the free-market, thus total costs continually exceed estimates as a project is built out. Then there are the environmental reviews, dealing with the irrational people who think a bad element is going to ride the subway so they can hang out in their neighbourhood, and then there are minority neighbourhoods who dream up some perceived injustices about the alignment (they are putting it in our neighbourhood because we are poor). And in the end there are the empty heads who would fight public transit based on some unknown principle. It wouldn't matter if the total cost of installing a subway in a large metro area came out to be 5¢. They would still complain that it is going to be a "subway/train to nowhere."
That is amazing. Here in America we have many problems all over that get in the way of infrastructure like subways creation and efficiency. In Russia, they benefit from central planning, which I think if it is utilized in the right way is a very good thing.
But at the same time there are many bad things that can come from Soviet-style central planning. While they can have a better subway system than New York, London, or Tokyo, it can come at a high price. Like if the government wanted to build high density TOD in your quiet nice neighborhood and connect it to a centrally planned subway in Russia, you just cannot protest. NIMBYism will not work in Russia or China, which I find is very important. A big reason why things we in America don't have an amazing public transit system is because people can have the ability to block development that prevents the government from doing whatever it wants at the expense of existing residents. I am very glad for NIMBYs who block development, without them our cities will be destroyed by urban renewal but because of it NIMBYs prevent infrastructure improvements too.
In contrast to Russia, America has a lot of politics involving companies and even municipalities competing with each other, trying to one up the other. Like New York City for a long time has not even thought about extending subway service over the pond, and there is a lot of bickering back and forth. Chris Christie I think blocked an attempt for NYC to extend the subway into Jersey for some reason. Maybe they feel it is competition, where providing transit service will somehow ruin how much money their city can get from tax base and jobs, and/or something company related over who gets the deal or whatever. The Soviets would have looked at the whole picture and not favor one part over the other, for the good of the people and efficiency. That is one thing I can appreciate about Russia (at that time during the Soviet-era) is with central planning, none of the politics and money deals are involved between competing municipalities thinking about only their own city or private companies competing ruining the whole unity of things.
Despite Russia though having had the benefit of central planning, I still think it is bad for people because people cannot democratically stop their neighborhood from changing. As much as we hate it when NIMBYs do something like prevent a subway or mass transit from being extended into their town, that will make people happier than having it be done against their will.
No I am saying that our freedom is good and I'd rather prefer that people are able to block development if they do not want it in their neighborhood. I'm just saying that as a result of our freedom to do that, an unfortunate consequence is that it limits the government's ability to centrally plan things effectively. It is a give and take but it seems like it is hard to get the best worlds of both central planning (like Moscow's subway system) and freedom which could end up going contrary to that. That is one amongst many reasons why America always has any ideas for high speed mass transit get derailed all the time.
It is a great system that truly covers the entire city.
But I will say this - if you don't speak the language, it is the most confusing public transit I've ever been on. It is so massive and complex, and there is no English - the way everything is structured, from the stations to the routes to the way stations and labeled and "announced" - trust me, you will get lost if you don't speak Russian and probably even if you do.
What the author failed to point out was that the Metro was not an example of "public versus private" or "central planning", but what a DICTATOR'S WHIM can generate, under threat of death, enforced by a Police State. In addition, they were built for double duty - MILITARY - as well as civilian purposes.
And, contrary to what the author stated, in NYC's case, the 2 out of 3 subways were expanding and better serving their customers when they WERE privately owned, not when the CITY took control of them all (by 1940).
See: The Third Rail - Back to the Future - page 1
"One difference between the 1920s and our new century is that mass transit in general, and rail transit in particular, was a vibrant and mostly free enterprise industry."
If you want to see the American version of the 'Centrally planned' Moscow metro, Washington D.C. is the place. But no dictator's whim was behind it, and it shows.
Frankly, to better compare the differences in "planning" one would need to go back before 1910 to avoid entangling with the "Progressives" / "Socialists" who were "taking over" the privately owned infrastructure of the United States, for the "good of the public". And under their mismanagement, the only option we have is to pay them MORE to fix their mistakes.
If I were the "Evil Dictator" of America, I'd decree a national initiative to build/rebuild electric traction rail mass transit - interurbans, subways and streetcars, to move the most passengers and cargo for the least amount of fuel and resources.
Last edited by jetgraphics; 11-17-2011 at 01:30 AM..
with how sprawly most of the US is, having a nice new subways system is impossible. Our sprawliness makes infrastructure very expensive to build/maintain.
with how sprawly most of the US is, having a nice new subways system is impossible. Our sprawliness makes infrastructure very expensive to build/maintain.
When the cost of fuel reaches the point where it is no longer cost effective to live in sprawl, the consolidation of population and the change in transportation will follow. To do nothing is to accept collapse.
The Moscow subway is definitely first class -- very comprehensive, beautiful stations, and crazy short headways. I have a Ukranian working in my office who tells me that back in the 80s, he'd go to Moscow on business, and the trains ran 45 second headways. I can't fathom this, yet I believe him.
Just the same, I'd call the Metro in Paris the very best that I've ever used. It isn't as pretty, but function beats form every time in my book.
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