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It's very confusing to have ten different definitions of suburbs. I don't know why we should use the term at all, especially when discussing city neighborhoods. Wouldn't "single family residential neighborhood" suffice?
Not ten. Two. And different words as I suggested: urban vs suburban for layout and city vs suburb for location. I think of layout as the more important contrast, so for me, the term makes sense.
I think this is clear:
Fort Lee is an urban suburb of New York City.
Staten Island is a suburban section of New York City.
Eastern Queens is relatively suburban compared much of the rest of the city.
I turned the path from the alley between the shed and the garage into a driveway (I can get my car into the garage, but can't open the doors to get out). Future owners will need a subcompact to use it.
My grandparents' rowhouse, built in 1926, has a "garage", that I doubt could fit any car made before the oil embargo of the 70s. It isreally just a walled off area of the basement (since the house was built into a hill, the basement emptied out into the alley) and featured NO door into the house. You have to exit and go around. My dad said he's pretty sure no car had ever been parked within.
There's no doubt it was a ploy from the builder to show how "modern" the homes were without actually thinking it through.
Not ten. Two. And different words as I suggested: urban vs suburban for layout and city vs suburb for location. I think of layout as the more important contrast, so for me, the term makes sense.
I think this is clear:
Fort Lee is an urban suburb of New York City.
Staten Island is a suburban section of New York City.
Eastern Queens is relatively suburban compared much of the rest of the city.
OK, now define in precise terms:
Urban layout
Suburban layout
Add to that:
Urban suburb
See how crazy this gets? It's not at all clear to me who has never been to those places.
Urban layout
Suburban layout
Add to that:
Urban suburb
See how crazy this gets? It's not at all clear to me who has never been to those places.
I'll take a stab at it.
Urban layout - Dense and walkable. Smaller streets with slower moving automotive traffic. Grid patterned streets (sometimes but not always). Some mix of uses within small area (Residential blocks abut commercial blocks. Buildings abut the sidewalk and street with parking either on street, in small lots behind building or garage.
Suburban layout - car centric, larger yards, larger setbacks. Houses further back from the road with garages facing the street (and often closer to the street than the rest of the house. Large spatial distinction between residential and commercial uses. On commercial streets, parking lots abut the street and create large buffer between the street and the commercial buildings.
Urban suburb - An incorporated municipality in close proximity to a larger metropolitan area (and reliant on that metropolitan area's economy). However, one that has an urban layout as mentioned above. I think Arlington, Va., also fits this mold.
Not ten. Two. And different words as I suggested: urban vs suburban for layout and city vs suburb for location. I think of layout as the more important contrast, so for me, the term makes sense.
I think this is clear:
Fort Lee is an urban suburb of New York City.
Staten Island is a suburban section of New York City.
Eastern Queens is relatively suburban compared much of the rest of the city.
Originally Posted by sweat209
No idea why city planners frown on hybrid of walking and driving and embrace very car centric in look and feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastern Roamer
Because, dummy, gas will never cost more than $2 per gallon.
Most of those areas built in the 30's , 40's and 50's are alot more friendly for people walking than areas built in the 60's and beyond.Not everyone had a car in the 30's , 40's and 50's so city planners where force to build this hybrid of walking and driving .But by the 60's things change with birth of American middle class with purchasing power to allow most American to have money to own home and have a car..
There was alot of lobbying in US by the car makers and suburban planners who hated the city and embrace the suburb look and feel.And courts and crescents where big thing than the grid system of the early and mid 20 century that was frown on do to safety concerns of pedestrian being struck by a car and through traffic.
Urban layout - Dense and walkable. Smaller streets with slower moving automotive traffic. Grid patterned streets (sometimes but not always). Some mix of uses within small area (Residential blocks abut commercial blocks. Buildings abut the sidewalk and street with parking either on street, in small lots behind building or garage.
Suburban layout - car centric, larger yards, larger setbacks. Houses further back from the road with garages facing the street (and often closer to the street than the rest of the house. Large spatial distinction between residential and commercial uses. On commercial streets, parking lots abut the street and create large buffer between the street and the commercial buildings.
Urban suburb - An incorporated municipality in close proximity to a larger metropolitan area (and reliant on that metropolitan area's economy). However, one that has an urban layout as mentioned above. I think Arlington, Va., also fits this mold.
Grids are mandatory, sometimes. Oh, K! How slow is slow enough? Is a 25 mph speed limit in a residential area (the norm throughout metro Denver's suburbs) too fast? Is a 35 mph speed limit on a commercial street (common in the city of Denver) OK?
Define:
1. Dense
2. Walkable
3. car centric,
4. larger (do we need a number of square feet for the yard?)
5. further back (do you want to establish a number of feet for the setback?).
So attached garages are "suburban", even if the property is two blocks from the downtown? What about condos with parking in the basement? Is that urban or suburban? What about townhouses with a front garage?
Do we need a square footage for the parking lot to separate "urban" from "suburban"?
Does anyone else see how difficult this is? It's in the eye of the beholder!
What I really hate about suburban planners is this .It makes city feel disconnected and very boring looking when walking and driving down those roads not say very car centric.
That is why I do not like the suburbs.The lack of stores ,homes and businesses and factories on the through roads and the backing of these stores ,homes and businesses and factories off other street where you have drive off the through road on to other street or two to get to those stores ,homes and businesses and factories .
My grandparents' rowhouse, built in 1926, has a "garage", that I doubt could fit any car made before the oil embargo of the 70s. It isreally just a walled off area of the basement (since the house was built into a hill, the basement emptied out into the alley) and featured NO door into the house. You have to exit and go around. My dad said he's pretty sure no car had ever been parked within.
There's no doubt it was a ploy from the builder to show how "modern" the homes were without actually thinking it through.
Cars of the 1920s were a lot smaller than the big autos of mid-century: the Ford Model T was 134 inches long and 66 inches wide, while the Model A was 165 inches long and 67 inches wide (by comparison, a Ford Pinto was 163 inches long and 69 inches wide, and a 2012 Honda Fit subcompact is 157 inches long and 66 inches wide.) My house has a garage about that size, as do a lot of older homes of the early 20th century--but they were intended to hold cars that were a lot smaller than modern cars. There isn't a door into the house in my garage either.
Cars of the 1920s were a lot smaller than the big autos of mid-century: the Ford Model T was 134 inches long and 66 inches wide, while the Model A was 165 inches long and 67 inches wide (by comparison, a Ford Pinto was 163 inches long and 69 inches wide, and a 2012 Honda Fit subcompact is 157 inches long and 66 inches wide.) My house has a garage about that size, as do a lot of older homes of the early 20th century--but they were intended to hold cars that were a lot smaller than modern cars. There isn't a door into the house in my garage either.
Huh. I always assumed cars started out huge and got smaller, but I suppose that isn't the case. I guess they didn't get the big fenders and chrome treatment until the 40s and 50s.
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