Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can't understand why the Bay Area extends BART for such long distances. Won't commuter rail make more sense, and at a lower cost?
Think that depends on the infrastructure that exists. Plus Regional rail requires some form of linkage to the core to make it work. BART like the Metro in DC have aspects of both. I believe that it is just as fast and extending may be cheaper with greater utility than developing new Regional Rail. Many cities in the NE were able to utilize existing infrastructure to develop RR more cost effectively than extending Heavy Rail. With all these it comes down to cost and utility and that is where the answer would lie. On this example am not sure of the cost implications nor functionality just some speculation on my part so some others may be far more knowledgeable in this specific example
The Bay Area has a couple of commuter rail lines: Caltrain, and the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin trains. The latter two are more regional rail than strictly commuter, but function as commuter rail for "super-commuters" who live in Sacramento or Stockton and commute to the Bay Area.
BART is kind of a unique beast: it is a product of an era when the only way that rail-borne transit could succeed was if it was disguised as some new-fangled invention. Instead of that creaky old elevated train, here's a shiny new monorail! Instead of that boring old interurban system in the Bay Area, here's a shiny new "BART" system running on the same right-of-way! Call them people movers or light rail, but God help you if you call them "streetcars!" Streetcars are old-fashioned antiques: in the bold future of the 1960s, the public demands electrically driven bi-rail commuter transportation units!
My thought is that it would be a better use of transit money to run local commuter rail on the Capitol Corridor (not all the way to Sacramento of course, but at least the length of the East Bay). Electrify both the East Bay and the current San Francisco - San Jose Caltrain line and grade separate whenever possible.
The tracks are still there and electification is extension, but still cheaper than a new BART line.
The Bay Area has a couple of commuter rail lines: Caltrain, and the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin trains. The latter two are more regional rail than strictly commuter, but function as commuter rail for "super-commuters" who live in Sacramento or Stockton and commute to the Bay Area.
BART is kind of a unique beast: it is a product of an era when the only way that rail-borne transit could succeed was if it was disguised as some new-fangled invention. Instead of that creaky old elevated train, here's a shiny new monorail! Instead of that boring old interurban system in the Bay Area, here's a shiny new "BART" system running on the same right-of-way! Call them people movers or light rail, but God help you if you call them "streetcars!" Streetcars are old-fashioned antiques: in the bold future of the 1960s, the public demands electrically driven bi-rail commuter transportation units!
I believe BART was modeled after the much shorter PATCO speed rail between Philadelphia and Lindenwold NJ. They probably believed it would work at longer distances as well as commuter rail. Indeed parts of it seem to function as such.
I believe BART was modeled after the much shorter PATCO speed rail between Philadelphia and Lindenwold NJ. They probably believed it would work at longer distances as well as commuter rail. Indeed parts of it seem to function as such.
My thought is that it would be a better use of transit money to run local commuter rail on the Capitol Corridor (not all the way to Sacramento of course, but at least the length of the East Bay). Electrify both the East Bay and the current San Francisco - San Jose Caltrain line and grade separate whenever possible.
The tracks are still there and electification is extension, but still cheaper than a new BART line.
A couple problems with that--namely that most of the traffic needs to go from the East Bay to San Francisco, rather than up and down the Peninsula and up and down the east side of the bay, and both of them already have some form of commuter rail. The only transit modes across the Bay are the BART tunnel, and buses over the Bay Bridge--although the Bay Bridge originally carried electric trains on its lower level, including Bay Area interurban traffic and even electrics from Sacramento (technically, they started at Chico, 2 hours north of Sacramento, with Sacramento as the hub of the network.)
The other problem with converting the Capitol Corridor's right of way to dedicated commuter rail is that the same tracks still run a lot of freight traffic, and since the route hugs the coastline pretty tightly around Suisun Bay it's difficult if not impossible to add more tracks.
Much of BART's original route just reutilized right-of-way that had formerly been electric interurban railroad--if your plan for the Bay Area is to electrify and modernize an older commuter railroad, that's exactly what BART did, it's just that the railroad in question had previously been electric.
Since Houstonians never visit the urban planning forum, I'll pitch in. Here's Houston current line.
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/hous/houston-map.gif (broken link)
Here's Houston system after the expansions are done.
The extension of the Red Line (North Line), Southeast Line, and East End Line are currently under construction. They will be in service in 2015. Yes you see correctly that this all was suppose to open in 2012. Politics, bad leadership, and NIMBY's got involved. Metro is trying to get federal funds for the University Line. I think Uptown Line will be used with local funds.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
